S02E23: Ponyville Confidential

[Pink Himalayan Saltsee this watch? i got it by Crying. my car? crying. my beautiful wife? Crying. My perfect teeth? Crying. now get the fuck out of my office]

Mare do well.

I meant in the first picture since that poster was all "KILL DIAMOND TIARA" over it.

[Headless Horse]

Hum. I wonder if Papelucho is popular in the Philippines?

[W.T. FitsSpoilers, you say? Well, in that case, I suppose I should avert my eyes.]

I meant in the first picture since that poster was all "KILL DIAMOND TIARA" over it.

The little blonde unicorn whose eyes went slightly derped when DT shoved her and stole her paper?

The fandom has decided that she's Derpy's daughter and dubbed her "Dinky Hooves".

[Star Platinum]

This episode honestly underwhelmed me a little as I was watching it for the first time. It had a lot of good callbacks, visuals, and other gags, but all the same I felt like the dialogue and pacing were a bit more stilted than usual. It's hard for me to quantify what I mean by this now that I'm typing it, but all I can say is that it didn't feel up to the show's usual high standards.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought this. I felt like there was a lot more dialogue than usual in this episode and it felt very labored compared to the average episode. On the other hand, this episode had some of the best faces and gags this season. The scandalous pictures of Celestia and Twilight, Rainbow afraid of files near her hooves and the AJ/Mac role reversal were the highlights of the episode. Maybe I'll like it better on a rewatch.

[NisslMarching bravely into a bold new pony future]

I just stuck this one over in the 1080p capture thread.

Well, there's Derpy for the episode. She's standing on the right of the town hall on the bridge with Dr. Whooves. Is that the first time those two have been paired up in the show?

[Killing Vector]

Well, there's Derpy for the episode. She's standing on the right of the town hall on the bridge with Dr. Whooves. Is that the first time those two have been paired up in the show?

They were together there in Hearts and Hooves Day, too. In fact, the artists might've just reused the layout from that episode for that entire section of the shot, but I didn't check.

[shotgunbadgerBeing pressed into labor is fun, as long as the work is peppy!]

When all the ponies are crazy colors the idea of some of them using dyes to be even more colorful (or in the mayors case, less) is really funny to me.

Yea in a world of bright pink and yellow ponies the idea that the someone goes 'hmmmm...I need a bit more brightness to stand out' is pretty funny.

[brakelessA pegasus will fly long and hard for a bit of gilded brass.]

Rainbow zen:
If you can't eat it or sleep on it, you can always rain on it.

I couldn't ask for a more episode than this. The gags had me laughing all the way through and AB & AJ nuzzlin' gets 4.5 rotten teeth out of 5. Jesus, Mary and Joseph the CMC are adorable.

[Highbrow DashAJ, Rarity! What's happening?]

I think it's a lie. In GIYC, we find out that Fluttershy needs nothing to look great, she just goes to the spa to hang with Rarity.

Gabby Gums didn't lie a single time through the whole episode. The CMC kept looking for new stories, but they never talked about making one up.

...You know it to be true

[ArtificerGoes well with All Natural Milk Naturally Flavored with Natural Flavors.]

Gabby Gums didn't lie a single time through the whole episode. The CMC kept looking for new stories, but they never talked about making one up.

...You know it to be true

The ponyville is full of rubes story was a lie.

[Scuderia FerrarityWhy?Because Twilight Sparkle. That's why.-- Twilight Sparkle]

Yea in a world of bright pink and yellow ponies the idea that the someone goes 'hmmmm...I need a bit more brightness to stand out' is pretty funny.

Or a hat.

But what if everypony gets a hat?
The only response is ...

A BIGGER HAT

But, what if you're walking down the street and you spot a pony with an even Larger and More Fabulous Hat????

"We dare not tempt them with weakness. For only when our hats are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be worn in public."

This Fabulous Hat Race is unsustainable!

It can only lead to mutually assured destruction, under a pile of ribbon, flowers, and peacock feathers.

[The DoctorTurner Of All Things Timey Wimey]

The ponyville is full of rubes story was a lie.

So was the Rainbow Dash story.

[SlateSlabrock]

Mare do well.

Also, Nyandash:

[KronosGiver of Zero Bucks]

Or a hat.

But what if everypony gets a hat?
The only response is ...

A BIGGER HAT

But, what if you're walking down the street and you spot a pony with an even Larger and More Fabulous Hat????

"We dare not tempt them with weakness. For only when our hats are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be worn in public."

This Fabulous Hat Race is unsustainable!

It can only lead to mutually assured destruction, under a pile of ribbon, flowers, and peacock feathers.

Somebody has been playing too much TF2

[Pink Himalayan Saltsee this watch? i got it by Crying. my car? crying. my beautiful wife? Crying. My perfect teeth? Crying. now get the fuck out of my office]

The little blonde unicorn whose eyes went slightly derped when DT shoved her and stole her paper?

The fandom has decided that she's Derpy's daughter and dubbed her "Dinky Hooves".

Oh.

[synthorangeLook at me, I'ma talking butt!]

Of course, who gives a fuck what the fandom thinks.
And now Scud has posed the setup for this question: Could Rarity make a hat so giant, so fabulous that even she cant wear it?

[badzergprance prance revolution]

Does anyone know what the equation is on the chalkboard? What are they teaching their children? XD

If this has not been answered yet, i think it looks like some derivations on Gauss' Law, which give the relationship between electric charge, and electric flux.

edit: obviously its not a real equation but it looks like its inspired by some EM equations

[Demon DonkeyThe MC Pony Commander]

Awesome episode, despite the unwanted return of Snips and Snails. 8/10.

[Doctor Wheeze]

If this has not been answered yet, i think it looks like some derivations on Gauss' Law, which give the relationship between electric charge, and electric flux.

edit: obviously its not a real equation but it looks like its inspired by some EM equations

I like to assume that the planet is part of the equation.

[Frosthawkwhat is this. what is this SHIT]

The fact that they're teaching that equation to grade school children is pretty impressive; for the most part that's uni-level shit right there. Of course, that's also probably why Cheerilee's been trying to teach it for over a year now.

[Headless Horse]

I think maybe the only objection I have to this episode is that it veers dangerously close to Family Guy-style "let's have them all act out-of-character for the sake of a plot that normally wouldn't make sense". CMCs working as journalists? Diamond Tiara diving headlong into her role as the ruthless, unscrupulous newspaper boss? It's only a matter of degree, not kind, that separates this story from, say, Stewie Griffin and that other little girl acting out My Fair Lady as washed-up Silver Screen luminaries in diapers.

I can sort of buy it on the grounds that it's a school newspaper, which gives it leeway to ape the narrative elements of a grown-up journalism story because kids' newspapers by their nature act as parodies of the real thing anyway, right down to the roles they play in the newsroom (or so we're led to believe). Anything that treads too close to being implausibly "adult" can be passed off as the kids just getting into their roles too much.

But I worry that it sets a dangerous precedent. Unrestrained OOC-ness is one of the things that transformed the Simpsons from a family comedy to a generic "make fun of everything in society" ensemble show, casting key roles using the stable of well-known characters, like the whole show had become a bunch of great big Treehouse of Horror episodes without the obvious tongue-in-cheek premise. South Park got the same way too, with these fourth-grade kids taking on fundamentally "adult" roles you just can't buy into, for the sake of a story that otherwise would have required a whole different set of characters and a different setting, which may as well have made it a different show altogether.

Having the Mane 6 in there, being themselves—and in some cases being less grown-up about having a gossip column around than the CMCs are—is what saves the concept here. If it weren't for them, I don't know if I could have suspended my disbelief for the whole half-hour, swallowing that these ten-year-old kids were upending the harmony of Ponyville with their silly little elementary school paper that seems to have been conceived with infrastructure to serve a circulation of hundreds. As it is, though, it works just well enough, and the way the CMCs resolve their mental turmoil through direct clashes with their adult counterparts is funny enough and flows easily enough from their characters that I can't force myself to say I don't like it.

But I don't like thinking that future episodes might take this one as an excuse to go further down this road, having the CMCs become film stars or The Be Sharps or something, or reenacting some well-known movie script by doling out its roles to the Mane 6 ponies according to whoever seems to fit most closely. (In fact, that's what's got me a little bit concerned about next week's episode.)

They've been very careful to avoid going too far in this direction up till now, and I hope this is about the limit of how far they're willing to push it.

[Pink Himalayan Saltsee this watch? i got it by Crying. my car? crying. my beautiful wife? Crying. My perfect teeth? Crying. now get the fuck out of my office]

CMCs working as journalists? Diamond Tiara diving headlong into her role as the ruthless, unscrupulous newspaper boss?

I'm not really seeing how this is out of character.

I can sort of buy it on the grounds that it's a school newspaper, which gives it leeway to ape the narrative elements of a grown-up journalism story because kids' newspapers by their nature act as parodies of the real thing anyway, right down to the roles they play in the newsroom (or so we're led to believe). Anything that treads too close to being implausibly "adult" can be passed off as the kids just getting into their roles too much.

Yes that is the joke.

But I worry that it sets a dangerous precedent. Unrestrained OOC-ness is one of the things that transformed the Simpsons from a family comedy to a generic "make fun of everything in society" ensemble show, casting key roles using the stable of well-known characters, like the whole show had become a bunch of great big Treehouse of Horror episodes without the obvious tongue-in-cheek premise. South Park got the same way too, with these fourth-grade kids taking on fundamentally "adult" roles you just can't buy into, for the sake of a story that otherwise would have required a whole different set of characters and a different setting, which may as well have made it a different show altogether.

what

Having the Mane 6 in there, being themselves—and in some cases being less grown-up about having a gossip column around than the CMCs are—is what saves the concept here. If it weren't for them, I don't know if I could have suspended my disbelief for the whole half-hour, swallowing that these ten-year-old kids were upending the harmony of Ponyville with their silly little elementary school paper that seems to have been conceived with infrastructure to serve a circulation of hundreds.

So you can buy magical sentient ponies having funny adventures and learning about friendship in a fantasy world but not some pony kids' newspaper in that world upsetting an entire town with gossip?

But I don't like thinking that future episodes might take this one as an excuse to go further down this road, having the CMCs become movie stars or The Be Sharps or something, or reenacting some well-known movie script by doling out its roles to the Mane 6 ponies according to whoever seems to fit most closely. (In fact, that's what's got me a little bit concerned about next week's episode.)

CMCs trying to be movie stars sounds like it would be a pretty good plot idea actually.

[Yarma]

The ponies don't act "out of character" when someone says that they mean "this isn't how I would write it."

Also a movie projector would break my suspension of disbelief, like if they whipped out some 3D glasses and watched avatar.

I'm just saying this episode ruled so hard and it even had the CMC being good/funny easily one of the better written episodes in the season.

[Headless Horse]

Well, okay, maybe "out of character" isn't exactly the right term. I'm talking about having them play roles that are beyond their normal capabilities, even if their personalities remain the same. If the CMCs are just kids in a treehouse, it stretches plausibility to have them doing things that normal kids in a treehouse can't do, or wouldn't do.

It'd be great if they decided they wanted to be movie stars. But if the universe forgot in the process that they're just kids, and treated them like they were generic characters acting out a plug-and-play "becoming movie stars" story (i.e. with agents signing them directly to contracts and having them travel on their own all over the place and so on), then I think that'd suck.

To put it another way, Diamond Tiara being a catty rich girl is one thing, but having her be literally a desk-pounding newspaper boss demanding format changes and shouting about deadlines and engaging in blackmail is ... kind of different.

[Pink Himalayan Saltsee this watch? i got it by Crying. my car? crying. my beautiful wife? Crying. My perfect teeth? Crying. now get the fuck out of my office]

It'd be great if they decided they wanted to be movie stars. But if the universe forgot in the process that they're just kids, and treated them like they were generic characters acting out a plug-and-play "becoming movie stars" story (i.e. with agents signing them directly to contracts and having them travel on their own all over the place and so on), then I think that'd suck.

Actually that would unironically own.

To put it another way, Diamond Tiara being a catty rich girl is one thing, but having her be literally a desk-pounding newspaper boss demanding format changes and shouting about deadlines and engaging in blackmail is ... kind of different.

Not really? She's been a jerk character for a while and it's funny she acted the way she did with the power getting to her head.

[Yarma]

Well, okay, maybe "out of character" isn't exactly the right term. I'm talking about having them play roles that are beyond their normal capabilities, even if their personalities remain the same. If the CMCs are just kids in a treehouse, it stretches plausibility to have them doing things that normal kids in a treehouse can't do, or wouldn't do.

It'd be great if they decided they wanted to be movie stars. But if the universe forgot in the process that they're just kids, and treated them like they were generic characters acting out a plug-and-play "becoming movie stars" story (i.e. with agents signing them directly to contracts and having them travel on their own all over the place and so on), then I think that'd suck.

To put it another way, Diamond Tiara being a catty rich girl is one thing, but having her be literally a desk-pounding newspaper boss demanding format changes and shouting about deadlines and engaging in blackmail is ... kind of different.

You mean normal kids as in not a unicorn and Pegasus in a land ruled by a sun deity that also contains Cerberus, cause I could see your problem if that were the case, and this wasn't a literal magic pony world.

[In West FillydelphiaSCHWEIIIN]

I Share Headless' concerns here. Perhaps not for the exact same reasons. My fear is that the show is becoming slowly saturated with gags. While, at this point, they're still able to get the decent message across and develop the characters nicely, I worry that this is "fast aging" in terms of the life cycle of many western cartoons. That eventually the show will simply become these gags and the episodes will begin to lack the depth they had. At the moment we are seeing some quality emotional stuff (Hurricane Fluttershy was brilliant, as well as Sisterhooves). At the same time we're seeing a lot of zany, gag heavy stuff (Lesson Zero, this episode...). I fear that, like other cartoons, they will run out of serious content, yet find all too much comedy material, and eventually hollow themselves out.

It's only a possibility, and one that probably won't play out in the near future. So, even if we are "peaking" or if the show will somehow be good forever, I should really just shut up and enjoy the ponies.

[Pink Himalayan Saltsee this watch? i got it by Crying. my car? crying. my beautiful wife? Crying. My perfect teeth? Crying. now get the fuck out of my office]

Also Headless you do realize kid's cartoons do that kind of thing (the kid characters taking on grown-up roles) all the time?

[Headless Horse]

You mean normal kids as in not a unicorn and Pegasus in a land ruled by a sun deity that also contains Cerberus, cause I could see your problem if that were the case, and this wasn't a literal magic pony world.

Well, I'm sure you're not saying that the fact that magic exists means it's totally cool to randomly change who and/or what the established characters are for the sake of a joke. I don't imagine our expectations of the show are that different, are they?

Also Headless you do realize kid's cartoons do that kind of thing (the kid characters taking on grown-up roles) all the time?

Yes, and that's kind of my point. It irks me when other shows do that, and one of the things I like so much about FiM is that it tends to carefully steer clear of it. I'd thought that a big part of why people liked the CMCs so much was that they were kids, not just "little adults" like Bart Simpson or Brendan Small or a million other such characters.

[Pink Himalayan Saltsee this watch? i got it by Crying. my car? crying. my beautiful wife? Crying. My perfect teeth? Crying. now get the fuck out of my office]

Yes, and that's kind of my point. It irks me when other shows do that, and one of the things I like so much about FiM is that it tends to carefully steer clear of it. I'd thought that a big part of why people liked the CMCs so much was that they were kids, not just "little adults" like Bart Simpson or Brendan Small or a million other such characters.

...But they're still kids. They act like kids. They were working for a school newspaper.

[NisslMarching bravely into a bold new pony future]

There were definitely some jokes there, like DT having a poster of herself ready to roll down, that traded on immersion breaking. Between that and the 4th wall glare at the end, DT was heading for Pinkie Pie territory in this episode. Since I didn't really like her before, I'm not too unhappy with that. Beyond that, I think if there had been an aside from Cheerilee about how the paper was the big thing at the school, and they had dropped some of the scoops in exchange for developing just a few, it might have felt less like a parody and more like an in-universe story. As is, you pretty much have to chalk it up to Featherweight being an off-screen mastermind and move on.

I will say that several of the episodes lately feel like they've focused on cramming in as many jokes as possible. I've really enjoyed watching them, the team is obviously having a ball and some of the gags are quite inventive. However, there isn't a lot to digest afterwards; just look at the episode thread lengths. I really think if we got moving with a hint of a plot in the background it would do wonders. "Twilight moves to Ponyville" in season 1 added some heft to those episodes, whether or not that was intentional from the outset.

[Headless Horse]

...But they're still kids. They act like kids. They were working for a school newspaper.

But the dynamic between them and DT was the same as if they were adults on an actual payroll in a hard-boiled gritty grown-up world. It's been a while since I was their age, but I don't think most school newspapers have internal dialogue that plays out like this. Most third-grade investigative reporting doesn't involve fedoras and spy photography. "Acting like kids" would have meant they'd have gone to Cheerilee in tears after being yelled at by DT the first time.

If it's deliberately exaggerated because thatsthejoke.gif, well hey, awesome. At least they weren't chain-smoking and writing gossip about each other to game the deadlines.

...Wait, that would have been funny.

[Wonkadoo]

To put it another way, Diamond Tiara being a catty rich girl is one thing, but having her be literally a desk-pounding newspaper boss demanding format changes and shouting about deadlines and engaging in blackmail is ... kind of different.

I disagree, I think this is Diamond Tiara's true self. I point you back to Family Appreciation Day, in which she is the only filly to find her father's tale of hostile acquisition to be captivating. She is a Rich, and she is as committed to the Rich family business as Applejack is to Sweet Apple Acres. And if she's ruthless about it ... well, that's been part of her character ever since she first sneered at Apple bloom.

Behaving like a wannabe tycoon is exactly what we ought to expect from her.

[Yarma]

It's really the immersion breaking and ponies acting out of character that some bring up. It's a kids cartoon about talking ponies who are magical. It isn't some deep involved story or anything. there isn't anything to get immersed in here. Just laugh at the funny ponies here people.

[Pink Himalayan Saltsee this watch? i got it by Crying. my car? crying. my beautiful wife? Crying. My perfect teeth? Crying. now get the fuck out of my office]

There were definitely some jokes there, like DT having a poster of herself ready to roll down, that traded on immersion breaking.

what

i don't

what

Beyond that, I think if there had been an aside from Cheerilee about how the paper was the big thing at the school, and they had dropped some of the scoops in exchange for developing just a few, it might have felt less like a parody and more like an in-universe story.

No, that would have been boring and unnecessary.

But the dynamic between them and DT was the same as if they were adults on an actual payroll in a hard-boiled gritty grown-up world. It's been a while since I was their age, but I don't think most school newspapers have internal dialogue that plays out like this. Most third-grade investigative reporting doesn't involve fedoras and spy photography. "Acting like kids" would have meant they'd have gone to Cheerilee in tears after being yelled at by DT the first time.

If it's deliberately exaggerated because thatsthejoke.gif, well hey, awesome. At least they weren't chain-smoking and writing gossip about each other to game the deadlines.

...Wait, that would have been funny.

Yes it is funny. That is why it happened. Because kids taking a school newspaper as seriously as an actual newspaper is funny.

By your logic of "acting like kids" the CMC shouldn't be doing anything they've done in the CMC episodes.

[NisslMarching bravely into a bold new pony future]

No, that would have been boring and unnecessary.

The Cheerilee thing would have taken 5 seconds and I'm sure they could have come up with something clever. Dropping, say, the Pinkie gag, which didn't really do anything interesting, and adding a little more interaction between the CMC and one of their targets could have produced some comedy too. One of this show's big strengths is how much it can do with the characters.

It's a kids cartoon about talking ponies who are magical. It isn't some deep involved story or anything. there isn't anything to get immersed in here. Just laugh at the funny ponies here people.

Yeah, I understand your position. The universe was always meant to be taken somewhat lightly and the ultimate goal has to be something that's fun and engaging for kids. I just feel like this show has the ability to illustrate fairly subtle character and life truths at the same time. Or something... I'm a little too tired to nail it down, but there's a reason why I'm posting on a pony forum and not, say, an Archer forum. And that's not to say that this episode didn't kinda do that, or that I'm not aware that CMC episodes tend to have a slightly different focus... I liked this episode, it was one of the better CMC episodes. I just like it when they slow down in a couple places enough to boost the emotional impact a bit.

[Chaos Sonic]

I liked the episode, but something about that spa scene rubs me the wrong way. To put it bluntly, I felt uncomfortable watching it. It really felt like something I shouldn't have seen.

Also, Twilight was looking pretty damn awkward in that scene too. I loved the cucumber bit though with RD.

E: I just finished a second watch in HD. I don't feel quite the same on repeat viewings, but I guess it's just kinda jarring at first you know? I still think Twilight looks awkward as hell in that scene though.

It's probably the weird, subtle new-agey music in the background. It really is a little unsettling.

[Highbrow DashAJ, Rarity! What's happening?]

I don't imagine our expectations of the show are that different, are they?

Seriously though, it was hilarious, cute and highly entertaining

[kefkafloyd]

It's really the immersion breaking and ponies acting out of character that some bring up. It's a kids cartoon about talking ponies who are magical. It isn't some deep involved story or anything. there isn't anything to get immersed in here. Just laugh at the funny ponies here people.

If people want to discuss the show at a higher level, that's their prerogative. People enjoy the show in different ways and can have problems with it in different ways; it's not your place to tell them how they can and cannot enjoy the show.

It's OK to respond to someone's posts and to have a reasonable debate about it. But don't just sit back and go "it's just a kid's show," actually take some time to respond to somebody's posts like PHS did. This isn't just for you, Yarma, but more for everyone in these threads.

[AramekYour MRI results have shown total infection to now be approximately one fifth of the full mass of the tissue."So you're saying..."Your brain is about 20% tumor.]

Know what broke my immersion? The fact that they are magical talking ponies. And that it is a cartoon.
No matter how well done it is, I'm always aware that I'm watching a cartoon, thus, brain goes "this isn't real life" and the "immersion" is ruined.

People enjoy the show in different ways and can have problems with it in different ways; it's not your place to tell them how they can and cannot enjoy the show.

And while "it is just a kid show!" is a bit of a cop out when discussing it, there isn't a lot of ammo one can use when faced with legitimate literary analysis and the level of thematic criticism we've come to expect (and heartily appreciate/enjoy) from HH. While I think we can all agree the deep examination of the show itself is indeed a fun exercise in understanding it, it is hard to respond to/rebuke such a deep level of "professional criticism" when we're distracted by the fact it is a magic pony show.

Not to say the show should be immune to criticism/deconstruction, but, to paraphrase an old PA strip, sometimes, for those of us who are on the outside (of the ability to truly levy professional critiques upon the show), it can seem like criticizing a cat just because it doesn't bark.