The Round Stable

(?) · by **itinerant nomad** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:50 am

They'd need put a replacement motivation in there somehow.
For better or worse, Rainbow without the 'Bolts is like Rarity with no fashion, Twilight with no studies, Applejack with no farm, the CMC without the CM, Sweetie Belle with no sister...in other words, a priss, a Celestia groupie, a hat, a religious invasion of the Holy Land, and Scootaloo, respectively.

(?) · by **FightingDreamer** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:53 am

Honestly, I'm kind of glad they toned that down a bit. Not that I mind it sometimes, but there's other things she can be doing. And I feel like the last couple episodes have shown that.

(?) · by **Headless Horse** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:54 am

Isn't that kinda what they did here? :pinkieshrug:

Replacement motivation = being the town hero? Or just being an awesome flyer for its own sake?

(?) · by **numsOic** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:59 am

Or having a BADASS pet.

Okay, that last one doesn't count.

(?) · by **Herr General** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:01 am

They should explain RD's backstory (why she didn't finish flight school). That should give her more personality.

(?) · by **FightingDreamer** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:03 am

Headless Horse wrote:Isn't that kinda what they did here? Replacement motivation = being the town hero? Or just being an awesome flyer for its own sake?

I... suppose.

Yeah, I'd like to see a flight school flashback episode too. I still think she has more personality than people let on.

(?) · by **itinerant nomad** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:16 am

Headless Horse wrote:Isn't that kinda what they did here? Replacement motivation = being the town hero? Or just being an awesome flyer for its own sake?

If the plot elements of this episode became a permanent thing, it could be. This episode's treatment of superhero tropes was more of a send-up, but it usually treats the ponies' motivations straight even as those motivations rob them and the town/society of dignity.
It seems hard to pencil in saving baby strollers from that hill as a natural offshoot of her personality in the same way we expect Rarity to be fashionable or Twilight studious.

Being awesome for its own sake treads close to making Rainbow unrelatable, because she'd already be there as far as the audience is concerned.
She'd be close to being the Old Spice Pony with her awesome skills at being awesome.

(?) · by **Headless Horse** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:22 am

(?) · by **itinerant nomad** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:26 am

Headless Horse wrote:

It even works better if you play the ad in reverse as well, since this is a world where Rarity finds gems in her couch cushions.
"Look again, the diamonds are now tickets to that Gala you love."

(?) · by **Stuff** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:49 am

Someone said it looked like she was riding a motorcycle. That's more badass.

(?) · by **itinerant nomad** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:54 am

There's an Old Spice ad with that, too. We just need to add a collapsing jacuzzi.

(?) · by **SlateSlabrock** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:43 am

itinerant nomad wrote:Applejack with no farm,

Well, Granny Smith can cross the street on her own. Maybe they finally paid for that replacement hip after all.

(?) · by **PhoolCat** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:49 am

RD = Spiderman - loner, wiseass, etc.
MMDW = Batman - Anonymous, supported by a group of ppl, etc.

If I had any talents at all I would make a little 3- or 4-panel comic of RD visiting Rarity to ask if maybe she could have a MMDW costume made as she has finally actually learned what being an anonymous hero is actually all about, Rarity then beams at her and says "But of course, my dear!" and pulls back a curtain to reveal all their costumes, including the one they made for Dash straight off, ready for the time she was ready to ask. There would be a sixth for Rarity too, of course

I need more sleep :vomitpony:

Headless Horse wrote:...that's your soft spot for Edna Mode talking.

No Capes, Dahlink!

(?) · by **BHHammy** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:35 pm

You KNOW if they have her flashback to how she got kicked out of flight school, it'll probably involve Gilda somehow.

(?) · by **Hollow** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:44 pm

reidransom wrote:
But you've watched it since, right? Because you really should watch it, even if only for the song. Also it is quite good overall, IMO, even if it sounds a bit silly based on the synopsis.

Nope!

OpposingFarce wrote:We've had a good amount of conversation about what exactly some of us didn't like. I mean I can't blame you for not wanting to read our obnoxiously long walls of text but it's not like there's no reasoning involved.

I read some of them, but my response after reading most of them was "...it's a cartoon". Which it is. Sure it didn't have EPIC AWESOME writing, and even Scootaloo's voice actor seemed to have an off day in this episode (or is it just me) but it was a great, fun episode. It didn't have development, or drawn out morals, or internet memes. It was just a cartoon with sight gags. Nothing wrong with a cartoon acting like a cartoon once in a blue moon.

(?) · by **Headless Horse** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:49 pm

What are you, some kind of rational person?

:rariwhat:

(?) · by **Opposing Farce** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:58 pm

Hollow wrote:I read some of them, but my response after reading most of them was "...it's a cartoon". Which it is. Sure it didn't have EPIC AWESOME writing, and even Scootaloo's voice actor seemed to have an off day in this episode (or is it just me) but it was a great, fun episode. It didn't have development, or drawn out morals, or internet memes. It was just a cartoon with sight gags. Nothing wrong with a cartoon acting like a cartoon once in a blue moon.

There were definitely some fun bits to this episode, but personally the way the conflict was resolved and how the overall plot was handled rubbed me the wrong way enough that it kind of soured me on the rest of it :pinkieshrug:

(?) · by **Emtu** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:26 pm

Headless Horse wrote:I can almost imagine these episodes' scripts being deliberately written to avoid mentioning the Wonderbolts because of a perception among the writing staff that her Wonderbolts fixation was becoming a cliché.

Didn't she kind of become disillusioned with the Wonderbolts at the Gala, though?

(?) · by **Headless Horse** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:27 pm

If we're not all completely sick of the topic--

Regarding the "rubbing her face in it" aspect of Twilight fixing the dam with magic and Fluttershy doing the flyby, I think I can understand what they were going for--if we look at it as though the writers consider simply having wings or possessing any magic to be a big accomplishment. It's as though we're supposed to see the fixing-the-dam trick as really overwhelmingly cool (which it is) and then the flyby to also be really visually impressive, i.e. supposed to impress Rainbow Dash in and of itself simply by showing that the MDW is at least as good a flyer as Dash is. The goal is apparently to make her legitimately impressed by the MDW's abilities, rather than to make her jealous. Same with the Sugarcube Corner scene--they're trying to give her the chance to reconsider her ego-trip and go "Okay yeah I guess that new hero is pretty awesome, huh", but her taking it as a reason to become consumed by jealousy is what they hadn't planned and what screwed up the lesson they were trying to teach.

It feels sort of like the new writer might not have had a really good feel for the fact that a simple flyby like what Fluttershy does is what pretty much any pegasus can easily do, and thus it was never intended to come off as "Ha ha, you don't have a leg up on the MDW at all, suck it RDash", but more like "Hey look, she's actually really good; you should give her mad props". Or maybe it was an artistic failing after all: maybe the script called for the flyby to actually look really impressive, but the directing didn't quite convey that impression (and if that's the case, it's pretty unrealistic to think Fluttershy could pull something like that off anyway). Either way the narrative ball was dropped somewhere along the line, whether by the writer not really having a good grasp of what pegasi are like (or what Fluttershy's flying is like) or not specifying a cool enough flying scene, or by the artists not conveying it well enough, for it to come across like something RD should be impressed by.

It could also be--and this is seeming fairly likely to me now that I think about it--that there was another MDW-saves-the-day scene that specifically involved her flying, and thus would have required Fluttershy being awesome and earning accolades of the same degree of Twilight fixing the dam, but it got cut for time. (The fact that Fluttershy's "I did the flyby!" at the end feels so tacked-on is what makes me think that was a change made in the cutting room.)

The end result is that just doing a flyby--and thus having no purpose other than showing "The MDW has wings too, so no differentiating factors for you RD"--puts the wrong kind of spin, a much shallower one, on what the ponies are trying to do. This episode's major weakness could all be simply the result of time constraints and some botched editing.

E: ^^ I wondered about that myself; but I don't think she was disillusioned by them per se, as much as she just missed her chance to have any kind of meaningful interaction with them because of circumstances. She's got as much reason as ever to want to impress them; they didn't fail to live up to their reputation the way Prince Blueblood did.

(?) · by **Aramek** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:28 pm

No, as that would be sad, and I refuse to let Dash/Pony Show make me sad.

(?) · by **Opposing Farce** (?) » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:38 pm

Headless Horse wrote:E: ^^ I wondered about that myself; but I don't think she was disillusioned by them per se, as much as she just missed her chance to have any kind of meaningful interaction with them because of circumstances. She's got as much reason as ever to want to impress them; they didn't fail to live up to their reputation the way Prince Blueblood did.

Yeah, and thinking "hey wait maybe being a Wonderbolt means getting dragged away from your friends all the time, maybe that's not what I want out of my life" requires a level of awareness and introspection that you're normally not going to get out of Dash.

(?) · by **Hollow** (?) » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:01 am

Headless Horse wrote:(and if that's the case, it's pretty unrealistic to think Fluttershy could pull something like that off anyway).

...why not? Lest we forget the balloon chase in the Discord eps? Sure, she's been "afraid" to fly before, and thinks she's not good enough or fast enough, but if she actually tries, she's fine. She doesn't do amazing tricks (yet) but she can be fast.

Either way the narrative ball was dropped somewhere along the line, whether by the writer not really having a good grasp of what pegasi are like (or what Fluttershy's flying is like) or not specifying a cool enough flying scene, or by the artists not conveying it well enough, for it to come across like something RD should be impressed by.

It was pretty obvious that Mare Do Well was just supposed to be some kind of impossible super pony (or well...an alicorn I guess) that can use magic, fly, and perform amazing Earth-pony-esque legwork. So they had Mare use magic, kick, run, and fly. Fluttershy's part was just to make RD go "okay this is totally not fair all I had to trump her with was flying!".

(?) · by **Opposing Farce** (?) » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:27 am

Hollow wrote:...why not? Lest we forget the balloon chase in the Discord eps? Sure, she's been "afraid" to fly before, and thinks she's not good enough or fast enough, but if she actually tries, she's fine. She doesn't do amazing tricks (yet) but she can be fast.

The fact that she was able to fly fast in the Discord episodes doesn't mean that it would make sense for her to suddenly pull off some kind of impressive stunt out of nowhere.

Hollow wrote:It was pretty obvious that Mare Do Well was just supposed to be some kind of impossible super pony (or well...an alicorn I guess) that can use magic, fly, and perform amazing Earth-pony-esque legwork. So they had Mare use magic, kick, run, and fly. Fluttershy's part was just to make RD go "okay this is totally not fair all I had to trump her with was flying!".

That's the point, though; in the episode as presented, there isn't any real reason for the others to want to make Dash go "okay this isn't fair wings were my only advantage" other than to rub it in her face. Whatever reason the writers had, in-universe it comes off as unnecessarily petty and malicious in a way that feels wrong given the tone of the show.

(?) · by **Hollow** (?) » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:51 am

OpposingFarce wrote:Whatever reason the writers had, in-universe it comes off as unnecessarily petty and malicious in a way that feels wrong given the tone of the show.

Rainbow Dash being an arrogant vain cockbag to just about every single pony = fine

The rest of the main cast being jerks to Rainbow Dash to teach her that she's being a fatheaded egotistical prick = not fine

What kind of logic is this? :bluh:

Really though, have you ever been in a fight with a significant other or a good friend, and you can't seem to get the point across to them until you act like them? Then they realize "wow, I was pretty awful" or just get more defensive and stupid.This is the same concept.

(?) · by **Opposing Farce** (?) » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:12 am

Hollow wrote:Rainbow Dash being an arrogant vain cockbag to just about every single pony = fine

The rest of the main cast being jerks to Rainbow Dash to teach her that she's being a fatheaded egotistical prick = not fine

What kind of logic is this?

Except that's not what actually happened. They didn't teach her to stop being a fatheaded egotistical prick by being jerks to her, they taught her that it's important to be humble by... well, really, by sitting down and talking to her about it. The show presents the Mare-Do-Well scheme as being the reason Dash learns her lesson, but ultimately what really happens is Twilight goes "it's important to act with grace and humility" and Rainbow says "ooooooh now I get it :v:

"

And really, the main thing that bothers me is that while the show recognizes RD is being a jerk, it doesn't seem to realize that the others are, too. It may be that what we're supposed to take away from it is 'they were being jerks in order to teach Dash not to be a jerk,' but the way it's presented doesn't really seem like that to me.

Hollow wrote:Really though, have you ever been in a fight with a significant other or a good friend, and you can't seem to get the point across to them until you act like them? Then they realize "wow, I was pretty awful" or just get more defensive and stupid.This is the same concept.

In my experience, that kind of thing very rarely works the way it's intended to and almost always ends up leading to the 'more defensive and stupid' outcome. When you get down to it, directly confronting somebody with your problems is a much more effective means of conflict resolution.

Of course, that doesn't make for interesting television, and I'm not saying that it's a bad thing they went for the angle they did; I just feel like the way the story was presented made the characters' actions seem oddly passive-aggressive in a way that kind of bothers me.

Edit:

Tallgeese wrote:It WOULD have been malicious in the event that they explicitly said something like "If only a CERTAIN OTHER PONY were like Mare-Do-Well!", but this did not happen thankfully. The Mane Six basically did it in the nicest way possible. There's also really no evidence that Rainbow Dash would have figured it out by just being told about it, considering that she explicitly denied her jealousy until the last second.

They never directly said anything like that, true, but I feel like the of sentiment is definitely implicit in the conversation.

And you're likely right that simply saying something to her before going off on the whole MDW stunt probably wouldn't have worked (since then there wouldn't be a story), but the point is that- as far as we're shown- nobody even tries.

(?) · by **Tallgeese** (?) » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:15 am

So I just saw this episode.

I thought it was hilarious.

About the only questionable thing about it was when the six (minus Pinkie) made comments about Mare-Do-Well, but it was clearly meant as a lighthearted lesson into why that pony was getting praised so consistently.

(And since a new reply came up as I was typing and i just HAD to read it...)

It WOULD have been malicious in the event that they explicitly said something like "If only a CERTAIN OTHER PONY were like Mare-Do-Well!", but this did not happen thankfully. The Mane Six basically did it in the nicest way possible. There's also really no evidence that Rainbow Dash would have figured it out by just being told about it, considering that she explicitly denied her jealousy until the last second.

(?) · by **itinerant nomad** (?) » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:24 am

OpposingFarce wrote:That's the point, though; in the episode as presented, there isn't any real reason for the others to want to make Dash go "okay this isn't fair wings were my only advantage" other than to rub it in her face. Whatever reason the writers had, in-universe it comes off as unnecessarily petty and malicious in a way that feels wrong given the tone of the show.

This is probably one of the throwaway gags. This is a purposefully timed twist on the part of the plot to sneak away some of Rainbow's dignity.
It's a "Pinkie with a trombone" moment.
It's true that the mechanism for this cosmic comeuppance is Fluttershy, but it was for the sake of the gag. We could just assume she just really wanted to have a little part in the big game her friends were having a ball playing.

(?) · by **SlateSlabrock** (?) » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:26 am

Emtu wrote:Didn't she kind of become disillusioned with the Wonderbolts at the Gala, though?

Not really. Or, at least, not that we saw. She wanted to hang out with them, but no matter what she did, it wasn't good enough. And then she broke a statue over her back and had to scram. Maybe she's gotten over the Wonderbolts, or maybe they're just off touring Griffintown.

(?) · by **FuriousXJorge** (?) » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:29 am

SlateSlabrock wrote:Well, Granny Smith can cross the street on her own. Maybe they finally paid for that replacement hip after all.

I dunno, that hip didn't sound so good.

(?) · by **The Doctor** (?) » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:30 am

Emtu wrote:
Didn't she kind of become disillusioned with the Wonderbolts at the Gala, though?

I don't know. Be interesting to see where she stands on her fangirl view. One thing to note at the Gala, is that for Rainbow Dash and Twilight, their dream night was ruined only by the party itself. Celestia obviously wished she had time to talk to Twilight, and the Wonderbolts were obviously impressed with Rainbow Dash. The party just got in the way of it.

(?) · by **Scuderia Ferrarity** (?) » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:03 am

SlateSlabrock wrote:Not really. Or, at least, not that we saw. She wanted to hang out with them, but no matter what she did, it wasn't good enough. And then she broke a statue over her back and had to scram. Maybe she's gotten over the Wonderbolts, or maybe they're just off touring Griffintown.

So somewhere there's a bizarro Ponyville that consists entirely of Griffons, and they have their own equivalent of the Wonderbolts.

Yes, there's a Fluttershy Griffon with big floppy lashes :fluttersmith:

that doesn't cotton to macho Griffonsociety.

(?) · by **Strangepony** (?) » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:17 pm

SlateSlabrock wrote:Well, Granny Smith can cross the street on her own. Maybe they finally paid for that replacement hip after all.

Has granny been using her walker this season?

(?) · by **itinerant nomad** (?) » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:09 am

I'm don't think she has. It wasn't a consistent thing in the first season either. How many times was she shown with it, outside of Applejack's imagination?

(?) · by **Headless Horse** (?) » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:25 am

She had it in the Show Stoppers opening, when Scootaloo blew by her, right?

'Course like most of her appearances in S1, all she had was recycled barely coherent dialogue. "Soup's on!?" :argh:

(?) · by **Strangepony** (?) » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:03 pm

She had it in Griffon the Brush-off, when Gilda pranked her, I think.

(?) · by **Momar** (?) » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:24 pm

Strangepony wrote:She had it in Griffon the Brush-off, when Gilda pranked her, I think.

Nope

(?) · by **Bonshea** (?) » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:03 pm

I for one know, deep down, secretly burrowed somewhere deep in our subconscious. Right next to our yet to be untapped love of Platypus, Turtles, Otters, and generally all things semi-aquatic. We were all hoping Mare-do-well, was Trixie.
No... Just me?

(?) · by **Aramek** (?) » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:22 pm

No, a lot of us hoped.

I think :smug:

is the best one-shot pony ever. I hope we see her again one day, even as just a background pony. Hell, like in Canterlot, she could be in the back buying a potato or something and we'd just lose it.

(?) · by **Grue** (?) » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:54 pm

Fun fact: Trixie actually appears in 2 episodes other than Boast Busters: Bridle Gossip and Return of Harmony 1. At least some nameless animator cares about her enough to insert her in random episodes once in a while.

(?) · by **Octavia** (?) » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:32 pm

Grue wrote:Fun fact: Trixie actually appears in 2 episodes other than Boast Busters: Bridle Gossip and Return of Harmony 1. At least some nameless animator cares about her enough to insert her in random episodes once in a while.

She's duplicated like five times in the scene in Bridle Gossip.

The Round Stable

S02E08: The Mysterious Mare-Do-Well

Who is the Mysterious Mare-Do-Well?

Re: S02E08: The Mysterious Mare-Do-Well

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