S02E08: The Mysterious Mare-Do-Well

[itinerant nomadSurprise Pedantry!]

I saw a fan comic blurb about how the other five main characters got together and ignored Spike's suggestion of making a reasoned and mature overture towards Dash to see if she would see the error in her ways. Rather, they went for the passive-aggressive and out of character scheme in the episode because "friendship is magic!"

I guess part of me wanted to see if this could have been massaged with the right treatment, even if the general idea remained the same.
I present for your consideration a proposal for a deleted scene that could have changed the perception of the episode without materially changing the sequences that followed. It might not have papered over some of the events that occurred out of plot convenience, but it might have made their actions more coherent.

Element one: The going assumption is that the five conspirators were acting out of character. I am going to propose, using evidence from how they have acted in prior and later episodes, that four of them were. There is one pony who has established a pattern of undermining and subverting friends, especially if they lord something over her. It's even something of an routine she has with some of them.
From this, I theorize that we can produce a scenario where this one friend can put her hoof upon the scales of justice, and tilt them towards passive-aggressive sort-of-villainy.
That pony, I postulate, is Applejack--who we should probably strike off the list of candidates for the Element of Honor, if there were to be one. We have her history of poor behavior when competing against Dash, as well as a continued back and forth with Rarity, where one has tweaked or undermined the other when the opportunity arose. Dash did really push her buttons, especially during that awkward photo shoot.
Her role in the plot was a display of superior strength by stopping a runaway carriage. Proving herself stronger than Dash is something she has relished before.
If we take the somewhat ambiguous balloon rescue scene as being an Applejack rescue, then that means she did twice as much to tweak Dash.

Element two: Of the five characters, several are not known for taking leadership roles. Fluttershy is non-assertive, and Pinkie too flighty. Rarity is more collected, but she's generally more focused on herself and somewhat disinterested in what Dash does or does not think about herself.
Despite the comic's setup, Spike has already drunk the Rainbow Kool-aid and is not around to interject in the coming echo chamber.
That leaves two ponies who have established a history of being forward with their ideas and putting them into action. But one is the cerebral and balanced Twilight, surely she would choose the reasonable and mature course. Especially when she consults with her right-hoof mare Apple--ohhhhhhhh.
There's a brief, conspiratorial look in this episode that Twilight and Applejack share that shows that they at the very least start off from the same point, even if they hadn't decided on a solution yet. Twilight might be reluctant, but who goes and doubts the element of honesty? It's not like there's a long-established history of honest Applejack being anything but, right?

Element three: The plot could have been planned as a small ploy, one which simply built upon itself as time went on. One criticism was that this could have been portrayed as a little gag that snowballed out of anyone's control. My only addition to this would be that maybe one of them wouldn't have minded it as much as the others. Most of the various parties would only know of their individual roles, so in isolation it wouldn't appear as serious a jerking around as it really was. Note, that one of them may have purposely taken on more work than the others to make sure they didn't catch on (element 1), and she would be herding them towards the actions she really desired all along.
Twilight and Applejack had the precipitating meeting of the minds, and it would be likely that they would dominate any planning.
Put it together, and we have an ostensible leader influenced by the strong opinions of a second in command, and the rest falling in line.


***pointless text after this point***


Twilight: I don't know AJ. Maybe we should just talk to Rainbow. We can make her understand how important it is to be humble and to help others over wanting fans and attention.
Applejack: That's sweet Twi', and I get where you're comin' from. But I've know Rainbow for way longer than you. She's not in the right mind to listen. She'll just say we're jealous. We just need to wake her up a little from her own little dream world a little.
Twilight: But to show her up like that. I think I'd feel awful.
Applejack: Look, it doesn't need to be a big ol' production. Just one extra heroic deed she can't do, and she'll start thinkin' maybe she ain't the best thing since apple pie.
Rarity: I sense an Apple Analogy coming.
Applejack: Not now, Rarity.
Twilight: I just don't know. Maybe?
Applejack: You have to trust me. Has that ever steered you wrong?
Twilight: Oh, okay. When you put it that way.
Applejack: Great, now to fixin' Dash's wagon. I can figure out a way to outmuscle her or you can magic up somethin' she can't think of beatin'.
Rarity: This sounds like a dreadful amount of work to put the slightest bit of polish on a very rough personality. I don't think I'll be brutishly throwing myself about to put an end to a Rainbow Dash ego trip.
Applejack: You don't think you can help, just a bit?
Rarity: Can, yes. Will, no.
Twilight: But wait, if talking to her makes her think we're jealous, how will showing her up make us look.
Pinkie: That sounds easy. Applejack just has to outdash Dash when she's not being Applejack. Are you Applejack right now...Applejack.
Applejack: Uh...yes.
Pinkie: Then you're not trying hard enough!
Twilight: What if you had some kind of disguise?
Applejack: Like a costume?
Rarity: A what?
Twilight: We might need more than one. It's not like we can guess the nature of the next emergency, or you or I will be the one around when there is one.
Rarity: Would this outfit you're thinking of need some design work?
Twilight: I'm thinking it would.
Rarity: Do you think a fashionista could, maybe, make a few suggestions?
Applejack: Don't see why not. But there's just not enough of us. We need more eyes on the ground, and maybe in the sky if Rainbow tries to hold that over us.
Twilight: Could you watch the sky for us Fluttershy?
Applejack: Would you mind wearing a little something extra while yer at it?
Rarity: I'm thinking a whole line of superpowered fashion!
Fluttershy: I'm, I'm not really comfortable showing off like that.
Applejack: Nopony would know it was you. Listen, what if you just flew around a bit. You wouldn't have to do anything else. Just wait until I give you the signal.
Fluttershy: Well.
Rarity: If you say yes I can do a full ensemble.
Fluttershy: Um.
Applejack: And we can make sure Rainbow can't foil our plans.
Fluttershy: Okay?
Twilight: What about you Pinkie?
Pinkie: Well, I think Dashie's being a little immature right now, so it's up to me and you guys as her friends to do the mature and adult thing.
*pause*
Pinkie: I have no idea what that is, but this sounds just fun enough to be it. I'm in!

***

The rest of the episode could be book-ended with a final dialog free scene after the big reveal and the credits.
It's just one long glare by Rainbow Dash at Applejack--something the latter pony has a history of enduring as well.

[Headless Horse]

Ooooooooooooor they could have—I don't know—talked to her. Like right after the photo shoot.

"Rainbow Dash, you're bragging. It makes you less likeable."
"Nuh uh!"
"We're serious. We don't want to be around you when you're acting like this."
"Fine then! I don't need you guys!"

And she flies off to do her own thing. And over time (they could reuse the "manufacturing disasters" scenes; those work just fine), she realizes that not only is glory naturally fleeting, it's meaningless if she has nobody to share it with.

In fact, you know what would have been a pretty poignant way to bring home to her what she's lost by being a hero?

"Hey squirt! How'd you like to have a special Guest of Honor at your next meeting of the Rainbow Dash Fan Club? ME!"
"Uhh... well, actually we're not doing that anymore."
"What!?"
"It stopped being fun after you started trying to show everyone how great you are. That was our job."



... But then, hey, no Batman allusions. And they would have had to come up with a pun title that was less labored.


E: I guess what I'm saying is, MMDW could have been great if only Mare-Do-Well wasn't in it

[Wayoshi]

I think it's this simple... they adapted the characters for the plot because OMG DARKWING DUCK REFERENCE, not the other way around. On top of it, Williams' archetypal character writing, also seen some in PYHD, served in this case to make R.D. look even worse, and hijinks like STEEP HILL EVERYPONY CAREENS DOWN and CONSTRUCTION SITE FALLS APART do not fit in this universe like Spongebob... it's so standard. The slightly-below average to average Saturday morning cartoon episode is a poor FiM episode.

I still remember Sibsy being a bit upset at the negative reaction on EqD at the time. I feel a bit bad, because the animators did do their usual FiM-quality job, but I guess they don't particularly think about the writing - they're the artists & animators!

It just wasn't a good concept for her 1st ep, and for that perhaps all the writers in the writers' room are to blame for this clunker - it happens, I guess. MMMystery has the same problem with the culprits, but nothing too majorly wrong on top of it, so it isn't quite the bottom of the barrel.

[kefkafloyd]

You can't be on all the time.

[itinerant nomadSurprise Pedantry!]

Ooooooooooooor they could have—I don't know—talked to her. Like right after the photo shoot.

That's a wholly acceptable outcome, though I was trying to play the hand that was dealt without changing the decision the five other ponies made.

[Pocketis she just gonna go booty booty]

I still like the idea that it could have been turned back around on them, with the lesson being that ganging up to teach someone a lesson isn't the appropriate response to someone being unpleasant.

Actually giving Fluttershy something to do rather than get her own costume solely to say "Oh hey by the way I can fly too, nyeah!" also would have helped. The scene saving Cherry from the falling balloon would have been a perfect opportunity for that, since we know how heroic she can be under pressure.

[Wayoshi]

^That would have given it away even earlier in the episode than it is.

[Headless Horse]

The Fluttershy thing bugs me more than most other elements because the script seemed to be treating it like it should have been a big payoff kind of joke--the way she dashes in all excited-like (playing against character) to tell us what she was there for. But it's just not funny; it makes me go "huh?" rather than laugh. It's like the story is doing this pose:



And waiting for a drum sting that never comes. That plus Pinkie's "chocolate cake" line just feel like the script simply doesn't "get" this show's sense of humor and is too lazy to figure it out.


(I'm really not trying to be gratuitously harsh on Williams here; she clearly does know her stuff and she does redeem herself in later episodes. It's just—there are such telltale "new writer" things in this episode, most of which are solidly at the heart of why this episode falls flat, that it'll be instructive as to how other new writers pick up the baton in the future.)

[Gruekinda magical]

The Fluttershy thing bugs me more than most other elements because the script seemed to be treating it like it should have been a big payoff kind of joke--the way she dashes in all excited-like (playing against character) to tell us what she was there for. But it's just not funny; it makes me go "huh?" rather than laugh.

Well, I thought it was hilarious... It was in character and the way she said her line was really amusing. There are some terrible jokes in this episode, but I disagree about this one.

[Headless Horse]

Hmm. Maybe ... it's more that in the moment when she delivers the line, it makes me think about the earlier scene she's alluding to, and that's the bit that's jarring? I'm not sure.

(I'm starting to think I should prohibit myself from posting within an hour of waking up, because I think some very strange things then)



E: VVV Excellently put. I like that.

[Wonkadoo]

There's not really anything wrong with the episode other than the fact that it doesn't believe in anything. It doesn't believe in its world, it doesn't believe in its characters, it doesn't believe in friendship, and it doesn't even believe its own moral. It's detached: Here's a fuckin story about some fuckin ponies, hey?

[PictishBeast]

Still not my favorite episode, but this isn't a bad bit:

Click here to view video.

Given how the Main Five are in full-on Mean Girls mode, this feels like a slightly self-aware, gossipy, hair-salon kind of moment.

[Frith]

I have to admit that i didn't like this episode at all. I think it's one of the worst episodes in the series.

It feels that Williams sacrificed the characters, geography and the plot so that she would get the jokes work. I think it's inexcusable, and the biggest flaw of the episode. Especially since I didn't understand most of the jokes and references in the episode.

[londonarbuckleAND SOMEDAY YOU WILL BUCK LIKE I BUCK.]

Yeah, I kind of thought the reason for my relative non-enjoyment of this episode was because they kind of made it "the nerdy superhero reference time" episode, and that it just didn't appeal to me because I've really never been a fan of superhero-type stuff. I think I got most of the references in the episode, I just didn't really care is all. I was surprised when everyone else didn't like it either, I thought it was just my problem.

[Headless Horse]

Whoa, wait, wait.

You don't suppose "Kicks McGee" was a reference to this, do you?

Click here to view video.

[numsOic]

Really doubt it.

[GravensteinCURSE YOU LARSON FOR MAKING ME THIS WAY!]

I don't know where the joke comes from, but I've been hearing people call other people/things "*blank* Mc*blank*" like that since way before that movie came out.

[Headless Horse]

True, so have I... but this just seemed, I dunno, a little on-the-nose.

[JupiterDermatologists Hate Her!Local Apple discovers weird old trick]

It might have been a reference to Buttercup calling her fists "Punchy McGee" and "Fisty O'Flannigan" in Power Puff Girls, but that might have been a reference to something else so who knows how deep this rabbit hole goes?!

[londonarbuckleAND SOMEDAY YOU WILL BUCK LIKE I BUCK.]

Honestly I feel like I've seen this exact joke in Looney Tunes before.

[Willsun]

There's got to be an originator of the whole named-fists gimmick, but I doubt the Will Ferrell movie or The Powerpuff Girls were the first to come up with it. I think london is right about it probably happening in Looney Tunes before, and even that would probably mean they were parodying some silver screen classic. My guess is that it probably came from an old western movie.

[Wonkadoo]

I've decided to treat this as another crazy-Twilight episode.

(And yeah, that scheme had written all over it.)

[Headless Horse]

A thought occurs.

As we know now thanks to several interviews, the major story points of an episode aren't the responsibility of the credited writer; they're dictated during the story brainstorming sessions by the story editor and head writer and put on 3x5 cards. At the time MMDW was written, that was Lauren and Rob.

The writer's job is to take the 3x5 cards and flesh them out into a complete episode script, with dialogue and gags and all the stuffing in between. But the overall plot is already hashed out by the time the writer starts working on it.

That means that if we determine that the thing that doesn't work about this episode is the "Twi and the gang team up against Rainbow Dash with a mean-spirited prank" storyline, we can't lay that at Williams' doorstep; it's Lauren and Rob who came up with it.

Williams might still not be great at putting believable dialogue in the mouths of the characters (and personally, I think that's still a big part of what's off-kilter about this and other Williams episodes). But she can't be blamed for the general "wrongness" of how the basic premise feels.

[AlliterativeAxolotlHonorary Cutie Mark Crusader]

If that's true, does that mean that Lauren Faust leaving really doesn't hurt the show that much because while she's good, the rest of the team seems to, I don't know, get the show even better?

I mean, the show wouldn't be the way it is without her, so that thought really stings a little. Of course, it also means that we don't have to worry for the future of the show, it's in good hands, but, still.

[Wayoshi]

Even if this is the right assignment of blame, I can hardly fault Lauren for having a couple eggs out of 52, or whatever. Shit happens.

[KamekYou just posted WHAT?!]

*pouts and puts away flaming pitchfork*

Seriously though, everyone has their stinkers. For what it's worth I enjoyed Hearth's Warming and Put Your Hoof Down. And some parts of Dragon Quest.

[Applepie]

Still not my favorite episode, but this isn't a bad bit:

That is the best thing of the episode.

[Twilight]

Yeah, I tried to write a justification post here along the lines of what Wonkadoo wrote, but I just can't.

There really isn't much redeemable about this. Ignoring all the crazy stuff, the episode is pretty average at most. It seems most people recognize the batman references, but I never cared for that show so it doesn't tickle me.

TBH, I don't really care who the author is, everyone working on that team should know better than to write the show like this. I mean seriously, if someone handed me a 50 page book, and told me to write an extension based off of the characterization, style, and world I interpret, I'm pretty sure I could do a decent job at keeping everything at least somewhat in check to what the original author wanted.

This episode doesn't even feel like I'm watching MLP. I don't hate it like some people out there, but I don't think I'm going to be watching it again anytime soon (Also, the Lauren can do no wrong thing has been shattered quite a few times for me. She is really great at what she does, but she isn't infallible either).

[Perpetual LurkerAll shall love me and despair!]

I dunno. In the end, I thoroughly enjoyed myself the first time I watched it, which puts it above 90% of shows on television today. I won't disagree that it's the overall low point for the show, but it's not awful. It also has this:

Click here to view video.

[Wayoshi]

I wasn't live watching at the time (catching up in early afternoon), but I distinctly remember not rewinding at all to check a nice scene/line again, and thinking roughly, well, they didn't come up with much this time.

[Perpetual LurkerAll shall love me and despair!]

Yeah, it's definitely not worth a rewatch. I did enjoy the spectacle and music, though. So, basically everything but the writing was good, and the lack of subtlty in the script is what really makes the whole thing a watch and forget ordeal, like a Michael Bay movie.

[Gruekinda magical]

I remember that Dash doing the robot was goddamn hilarious the last time I watched it. Also Sparkler's scene.

[Twilight]

The little jokes, visual gags, ect. that make MLP special and unique are all still there, and they make the episode actually kind of fun. It's just that yeah, the story is boring. The story segments are long, and not a whole lot interesting happens during them. It feels like one of those times you could just have a quick 1 minute montage to move the story along. I mean,we get it, Dash can't keep up and Mare Do Well is doing crazy things no pony should be able to. Have Dash contemplate how she does all those things so that the hinting towards the different pony race traits isn't lost. Presto! We now have 5-10 minutes of free time for the episode to use up on something else. This ignores the fact that the characters wouldn't do this big convoluted plan in the first place, but hey, maybe they can use that 10 minutes actually giving them a reason for why they would choose to do such a thing.

Edit: It's especially slow for S2 standards. The pacing in this one is something I would expect from S1.

[MirAbsolutely nothing could go wrong.]

Okay, the only thing I know going into this is that for whatever reason, a lot of people consider this the worst episode in the series.
So yay! Heightened expectations!
I'm also not sure if the pun in the title is clever, horrible painful, or both.

So what we have here seems to be the most ridiculous Rainbow Dash fanclub.
Liking all the RD decorations plastered everywhere. Is that Bon Bon?
Somehow, Dash lurking outside the meeting of her own fanclub does not surprise me.

So clouds are something you swim through now?
Where did that crowd from? 2 seconds ago it looked like nobody was around.
Heh, way to read my mind RD.

First a kid down a well and now a runaway baby carrige? I think I can see where this is going...
Oh, didn't take long for that to go to her head.

Did they really just use the spiderman catchphrase?

Spike's a ghost!

I don't think hotair ballons usu- who's that now?
Ha, even with all the corny references, I wasn't expecting a straightup costumed superhero episode.
Mayor out of nowhere with a speech and a name. I get the feeling she lives for moments like these. Probably rehearses them at home when nobody's around from a list of possible events.

Arrogant and jealous. Rainbow Dash is in rare form this episode.

Is that the same freaking hill? They really need to put up a guardrail. What's it going to take?
Mare-do-well (ugh, that pun) is sorta reminding me of Darkwing Duck's costume. Which is interesting, because if there was ever a character which an ego big enough to compare to Rainbow's... I wonder if that was intentional...
That kick reminded me of AJ...

Umm... show people, a word with you. Making hightech stuff out of wood doesn't make it look more primitive. It just makes it sorta stupid. I can forgive you though, because clearly you just wanted a classic skyscraper scene.
Quit while you're ahead, RD.
"Somehow knows what will happen ahead of time" This line struck me as odd. seems like it came out of nowhere. Is that supposed to be a reference to the Pinkie sense or?

WHEN WILL PONIES LEARN NOT TO MAKE DAMS OUT OF PAPERMACHE?

Okay, yeah, it's definately the rest of the mane 6. Also, shouldn't there still be a a giant wall of water still be about to crush Ponyville? Just fixing the dam wouldn't stop that...

heheh, the winged fly-by was kinda funny.

Hint hint mare-do-well hint hint.

Nice lampshading of the death hill there.

RD, you're no longer ahead. It's too late for that, but you should probably still quit anyway. This is painful.

You know, even though her ego was completely out of control, somehow I still feel bad for her. How do they do that?

Ouch, even Scoots.

Getting some batman vibes here from their choice of music.

Surprise! It's Pinkie! I think it broke RD's mind.
heheh "Kicks mcgee."
Ahhh, it was supposed to be a Pinkie sense reference!
The moral seems a little phoned in...

Well, I have to say that wasn't as bad as I was expecting from all the hate this episode seems to get. I'm betting RD fans didn't like the way they portrayed her. To be honest, I'm not sure if it was within her character or not. Obviously she doesn't normally act that way, but she's always been an insufferable bragger, so I could see her ego becoming a problem if it got stroked a few times too many. On the other hand, while she can be insensitive, she's never been selfish before. Even at her worst she's never put herself ahead of others, which is sorta her redeeming feature, and that was definately missing here. The only thing that comes close was the way she acted at the gala to get attention, and since she got a pass on that one like the rest of the cast, maybe they thought they needed to revisit it.

The episode itself, had a different feel too. Like a superhero parody. I think that was intentional. Actually, if Mare do well's costume reminded me of Darkwing, then this episode reminded me of something you might see on that show. That part might not be intentional though, because they both happen to be parodying the same thing.

[Wayoshi]

What makes this a go-to candidate for the bottom of the barrel is not just R.D., it's the nature of the solution from the rest of the Mane 6 as well. Going behind her back to try to outstage her is widely considered being out of character by all of them.

The ending to this episode is still one of the oddest as well. Pony is above winku~ endings.

[MirAbsolutely nothing could go wrong.]

heh, that was a fast responce.
You know, I didn't see it so much as them trying to upstage her as they were trying to lead by example.
Of course, in retrospect, having the rest of them brag about their own contibutions at sugarcube corner sort of muddies that message. I could see the rest of them getting excited with the idea and running with it, because that's well within all their characters, but that destroies all pretenses of the lesson even more so.
So yeah, I agree, the whole thing was pretty strange. mind you, i wasn't saying it was my favorite or anything. Just that it didn't seem as bad I was expecting from all the barbs I've seen aimmed at it.

[Headless Horse]

^^ I could have bought the Sugarcube Corner scene if maybe they had all complimented each other's contributions, instead of each of them being fixated on what they themselves did. It would have helped obscure the twist better too.

Plus, as you pointed out, the level of "primitive tech" just seemed weird as hell. Animaniacs-looking skyscrapers, sure I guess, but steam cranes made of logs? What is this, the Flintstones? And since when does Ponyville have alleyways, anyway?

It's hard to know who to blame for everything that's so wonky about this episode, since everything from the script to the art takes a turn being "off".

[Twilight]

In addition to what Wayoshi said, this is basically a quick summary of why I dislike this episode:



Edit: Whoa, woops. Looks like I had this tab open a lot longer than I thought.

[MirAbsolutely nothing could go wrong.]

OH! I definately want an episode about the dark, seedy, backalleys of Ponyville now, just because the idea itself is so completely ridiculous.

[VaultAggie"Shawty, you the best"]

I actually kinda liked this episode but there are a lot of flaws. The anachronistic part is the worst for me, it really takes me out of the episode.