Isaak’s Grand, Though Experimental, Animation Blog

Post all your wacky zany pony media here. (Music, fanart, videos, avatars, gifs, et cetera.)

Moderators: Geomancing, Westy543

Re: Isaak’s Grand, Though Experimental, PMV Blog

Post by Headless Horse (?) » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:56 pm

numsOic wrote:"These ponies are so multifaceted and well characterized" - Headless Horse, pretty much every post

"You can sum up everyone but Applejack in a single word" - Headless Horse, this post

You of all people must know why the words chosen for Isaak's videos aren't a complete summary of the ponies featured.


Well, sure, but there's a difference between being able to be vividly illustrated as a character with a single word, and cartoonishly having only one defining trait.

I don't think the latter applies to anyone in the cast, but everyone except for AJ certainly at least suggests a one-word artistic distillation in a way that regular people in real life don't. For AJ even the former isn't really true either.


E: Oh right of course, BUYSOMEAPPLES like Applejack
Last edited by Headless Horse on Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Headless Horse
User avatar
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011

Post by Kraps (?) » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:07 pm

Wow nums, pedantic much? :rainbert:
<Pineyapple>when you've fucked up so bad that Tara Strong is calling you on your shit
<Pineyapple>that's pretty bad

Team GSD

Image
Kraps
User avatar
Don't be afraid.
Applejack Aces
Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Gender: Male

Post by numsOic (?) » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:09 pm

"Work" certainly sums up a lot of Applejack's uniqueness (or at least something like "work ethic" does better, including the trustworthiness and honesty part). It's just not a good name for the video. :pinkieshrug:

Kraps wrote:Wow nums, pedantic much? :rainbert:

Do you KNOW who you're dealing with here
numsOic
Stare Masters
Joined: May 21, 2011
Location: Argentina
Gender: Male

Post by Davyinatoga (?) » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:35 pm

numsOic wrote:"These ponies are so multifaceted and well characterized" - Headless Horse, pretty much every post

"You can sum up everyone but Applejack in a single monosyllabic word" - Headless Horse, this post

Fiximigated.

numsOic wrote:"Work" certainly sums up a lot of Applejack's uniqueness (or at least something like "work ethic" does better, including the trustworthiness and honesty part). It's just not a good name for the video. :pinkieshrug:

Yeah, my mind ended up wandering to this earlier today at work (heh). "Work" definitely seems to... uh, work best.
Last edited by Davyinatoga on Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImageImage
Davyinatoga
User avatar
Ew, will you please just stop posting already so I can stop having to look at it?
Semper Pie
Joined: Jul 12, 2011
Location: *shrug*
Gender: Male

Post by HuffyTheMagicDragon (?) » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:59 pm

But "Work" makes her sound so dull! She can have fun too! :applejargh:

I still think "Run" was a good suggestion. So are "Stand" and "Strive". But I guess it depends on the new direction Isaak wants to take. Did I miss the stream again? Argh.

EDIT: Dash like Applejack. :iamapony:
Image
HuffyTheMagicDragon
User avatar
boop
Applejack Aces
Joined: May 01, 2011

Post by Headless Horse (?) » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:51 am

Fly Like Applejack.

(It'd be all ironic and metaphorical and stuff)
Headless Horse
User avatar
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011

Post by Aurora (?) » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:00 am

I'm still fond of "Live Like Applejack".
Image Image
[23:52] <@Westy543> pony butts
Aurora
User avatar
Watch yourself, now.
Rainbow Racers
Joined: May 17, 2011
Location: "Iowa"
Gender: Female

Post by Davyinatoga (?) » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:35 am

What about "Push Like Applejack"?
ImageImageImage
Davyinatoga
User avatar
Ew, will you please just stop posting already so I can stop having to look at it?
Semper Pie
Joined: Jul 12, 2011
Location: *shrug*
Gender: Male

Post by Mechanical Ape (?) » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:44 am

I suggest "Win Like Applejack". Because winning is what she does: races, trophies, rodeos, self-imposed challenges. Applejack's a winner.

Besides, how awesome would it be to climax the video -- the last of the series -- with that big one-word caption:

WIN

It's hard to suggest stuff when I'm not the creator, though. I think, Isaak, that once you have your concept and storyline decided upon, the verb will reveal itself.
Image
Mechanical Ape
User avatar
And I thought they smelled bad on the outside!
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Sep 24, 2011
Gender: Male

Post by Dr.Dinosaur (?) » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:14 pm

Mechanical Ape wrote:I suggest "Win Like Applejack". Because winning is what she does: races, trophies, rodeos, self-imposed challenges. Applejack's a winner.

Besides, how awesome would it be to climax the video -- the last of the series -- with that big one-word caption:

WIN

It's hard to suggest stuff when I'm not the creator, though. I think, Isaak, that once you have your concept and storyline decided upon, the verb will reveal itself.



Man, all i can think of is this :gonkity:
Why must you do this to me pop music?
Dr.Dinosaur
User avatar
You got frosting on my suit.
We Like Spike
Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post by Glazius (?) » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:10 pm

HuffyTheMagicDragon wrote:But "Work" makes her sound so dull! She can have fun too! :applejargh:

She can have fun while working. Easily half the events at the Sisterhooves Social were based on stuff she and Applebloom did all the time on the farm.

It's wrong for work to be dull. Life is built up every day from work; from work it derives its specific dignity.
Glazius
User avatar
He finds himself through the martial arts discipline of Nokando, which he says hardens the body and turns the mind inward.
Applejack Aces
Joined: Feb 17, 2011

Post by BouncyPony (?) » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:00 pm

If only we had a single word that meant 'wear a hat.' :gotcha:
Image
This is what joy looks like.
BouncyPony
User avatar
So.... you better Watch Out!
Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Location: San Diego

Post by Headless Horse (?) » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:35 pm

Glazius wrote:She can have fun while working. Easily half the events at the Sisterhooves Social were based on stuff she and Applebloom did all the time on the farm.


Only now does it occur to me that it was all a big Karate Kid homage. :lol: APPLES ON APPLES OFF

Really though, I think until we get more character development out of her, her defining trait is probably going to have to be competitiveness and athletics. Nothing else (i.e. her steadfastness and devotion to family and so on) is really all that photogenic.
Headless Horse
User avatar
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011

Post by Momar (?) » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:39 pm

Haberdash like Applejack.

Sell like Applejack.

Grow like Applejack.

Shove your hoof in peoples' mouths like Applejack.

Have bad manners like Applejack.

Misinterpret like Applejack.

Man, I'm stumped.
Momar
User avatar
OkayguesswhoIamnow...

HOWDY Y'ALL AH'M GONNA GO BUCK SOME APPLES!
Applejack Aces
Joined: Feb 15, 2011
Gender: Genderqueer

Post by Opposing Farce (?) » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:27 pm

Uncouth Like Applejack
Opposing Farce
User avatar
Don't you smile at my face
Spit on my back
Do you kiss your mother with a mouth like that?
Faithful Students
Joined: Feb 14, 2011
Location: Philadelphia

Post by Aurora (?) » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:34 pm

Applejack Like Apple Pie

Hmm...
Image Image
[23:52] <@Westy543> pony butts
Aurora
User avatar
Watch yourself, now.
Rainbow Racers
Joined: May 17, 2011
Location: "Iowa"
Gender: Female

Post by Herr General (?) » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:50 pm

Alcoholic like Applejack isn't good enough? :fluttersmith:
<Berrybot> fuck sports

ImageImageImage
Herr General
User avatar
fabulous
Night Mares
Joined: Oct 21, 2011
Location: Lima, OH
Gender: Male
  • Website
  • Skype

Post by Headless Horse (?) » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:01 am

Gotta be monosyllabic.

So, Drink Like Applejack.



(i.e. "Drink, like, Applejack")
Headless Horse
User avatar
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011

Post by numsOic (?) » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:23 am

BouncyPony wrote:If only we had a single word that meant 'wear a hat.' :gotcha:

'Hat Like Applejack'
numsOic
Stare Masters
Joined: May 21, 2011
Location: Argentina
Gender: Male

Post by Isaak (?) » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:43 pm

It's really great how this discussion has erupted and having people share their ideas, but I have the feeling we're running in circles here, making the thing far more important than it actually is.
We've been struggling to get the right verb here, which will become a grind after a while and in the end you'll be unhappy with anything you come up with. So maybe we should take a step back and look at this from a distance.

The "Verb" creative constraint, while applicable to the other characters (though I'm still not sure about Twilight), is proving to be too constraining when trying to summarize AJ, so maybe there's something wrong with the constraint in this case and it should be changed.
I just got a suggestion from Youtube:

"Kick It Like Applejack", which I really like and led me to come up with "Kick Back Like Applejack". Which is kind of really awesome and rolls off the tongue beautifully.

*Neat segue into a new blogentry*

Killing Your Apples

[...] Like Applejack - Draft One

If the discussion surrounding the verb is any indication, conveying the character through the format I've been developing with every entry has been difficult.
I started out pretty much the same way I did with every "Verb Like Pony": I have a song befitting the character, I have footage which goes with it and a general idea of what I want to tell.
The rest I would make up as I go along. A side effect of trying something new every time and learning by doing (the best way mind you).

So for a while I worked on AJ's trailer, repeating a lot of the same steps, unknowingly missing a few, but it went okay. I had come up with a fairly striking visual identity matching both the character and tying nicely into the music,
though still it "felt wrong". At the time this was more of a subconscious concern which I dismissed as something that'll work itself out as I continue to tinker with it.
Production went along, not at the pace I'd like but I'm not one to worry too much. That feeling in the back of my head though didn't fade away. Usually I have an "A-HA!" moment when developing the video in which everything comes together and I feel like I really got something going. This moment marks the end of the conceptual period meaning I don't have to worry about the larger abstract picture and can pour myself into making the actual video.
With Shine Like Rarity for instance that moment came when I had finished "Eyed, eyed, eyed, eyed" 18 seconds into the video.

With AJ's trailer, I didn't feel things were coming together. I didn't really know the character, much less how I could audiovisually present her. So a few days ago I decided to drop everything and start with my mind completely fresh. I threw away the music, the visual identity, the hours of I had already put into it, everything.
It was scary at first, but ultimately it ended up being very liberating as I could now bring back the fun of discovery in the project, instead of grinding on something I'm just not sure about.
As the character herself was the big unknown for me I decided to casually analyze her interactions with the other characters and her general approach to things.

Applejack is loose, down to earth, dependable, honest, modest though confident, practical, easy going and at times stubborn. Comparing this with the initial draft of her trailer it becomes clear what's wrong here:
The trailer, in contrast to her character, is big, fancy, loud and kind of in your face. That's not Applejack. It's Rainbow Dash, Rarity and Pinkie, but it isn't AJ.
This doesn't mean I couldn't break out the After Effects and go wild with all kinds of cool stuff, but I had to rethink on how I would use them to convey the character.

The recent discussion surrounding effects in PMVs was also a great help as I had to articulate my view on the use of motion graphics and the like for the first time.
It was something I instinctively "knew", but never needed to relay on such a conscious level.

Realizing all this was refreshing and it unlocked a mindset I haven't had before, enabling me to look at filmmaking from a new perspective. I learned which is what this is all about.

So now I've restarted work on AJs trailer and already I'm feeling this iteration a lot more. Christmas break is coming and I'm to hunker down and work some magic. The goal is to have it finished before at the end of it.
Isaak
User avatar
Equus Ludens :3
Semper Pie
Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Location: Dutchland!
  • Website

Post by Isaak (?) » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:04 pm

Crossing my streams with TheArtrix!

Think I'll get some sound, lay the foundation and work on additional scenes for the opening.
Isaak
User avatar
Equus Ludens :3
Semper Pie
Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Location: Dutchland!
  • Website

Post by Isaak (?) » Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:03 pm

Isaak
User avatar
Equus Ludens :3
Semper Pie
Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Location: Dutchland!
  • Website

Post by Isaak (?) » Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:10 pm

Image

Image

Image

:)

(I'll get to a longer and more informative blogpost later on, tomorrow maybe)
Isaak
User avatar
Equus Ludens :3
Semper Pie
Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Location: Dutchland!
  • Website

Post by macchinainterna (?) » Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:28 pm

Dat backround animation. :awesomedash:
ImageImage
macchinainterna
User avatar
Have :twonk:, will travel!
Joined: Nov 27, 2011
Location: Colorado
Gender: Male
  • Website
  • Skype

Post by Artificer (?) » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:51 pm

Oh man. I'm excited for this. :awesomedash:
Image
Artificer
User avatar
Goes well with All Natural Milk Naturally Flavored with Natural Flavors.
Stare Masters
Joined: Mar 01, 2011
Location: 80,000 feet above sea level and climbing.
Gender: Male
  • Website

Post by Isaak (?) » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:47 pm

Phew, this took a bit longer than expected, but it's here!
A new post in which I shed light on the creative process after dumping Draft One of AJ's trailer. I'll be updating the OP.

AJ Entry 2: Plant Our Tiny Seeds

with proper care and sunshine
the PMV it feeds...

Thus the AJ video was killed and I was sad. Undeniably sad, since I had already put so much effort into it. Scared too, realizing that this was the first time I dropped something so consciously and after so much work. What if I didn’t reach that level I wanted to? Do I need to drop the song altogether? What kind of song should I pick then?
It was a radical choice, but really the only choice. I wasn’t happy making draft one and if I’m not happy making something I see that reflected in my work, so every time I see my work I’m reminded of how I’m unhappy I am with it which in turn affects how I work, feel and act until :gonkity:

This is something I’ve only recently learned about myself. Pony videos! A look into one’s soul!

Fortunately, I don’t like lingering on issues like this and instead of thinking too much about fitting it all together I went with a more instinctive approach, making it up as I go along. I would find a way, I always do... somehow.

Rebuilding The Core

The initial draft was flawed at the conceptual level and thus required some digging. In short I was making Shine Like Applejack. Rarity’s trailer was still very much in my head with its bold visual language fitting our favourite four legged fashionista.
AJ though isn’t Rarity. She’s hard working, dependable, helpful, down to earth, western, modest, proud and a “mite stubborn”. She has no real need for showing off or being the center of attention.
So I needed to flip a switch in my brain.

What kind of visual language would fit Applejack? Are there any sources of inspiration I could seek out?
“Western” was a good place to start, since they’re a filmgenre and provide a lot of music I could use.I particularly like the expertly paced westerns of Sergio Leone which allow the viewer to take in the scene. They move slowly, but are at times the most intense viewing experiences one could ever have.
That DNA was among the first elements I introduced to the mix and in my head I started to connect the dots and formed a story of sorts:

It’s late in the day and after a long day of work AJ’s relaxing under a tree like she did in Fall Weather Friends. But trouble is afoot! Rainbow Dash yells “Stampede!” and Applejack looks up (Lesson Zero), signalling a shift and starting off the video.

With Sergio Leone of course comes Ennio Morricone and he was the composer I gravitated towards when looking for music. I was looking for something slow and light. Something I could construct slow pans and zooms on.
After a short search and plenty of suggestions by some very helpful people I stumbled upon Night in the Desert, from Two Mules for Sister Sara. I was in particular interested in 01:40 and onwards, which could provide a great opening.

I played with the music, trying to combine the song I already had with Night In the Desert but found that there really wasn’t a way to smoothly transition from the slow beginning to the high energy everything else. The change was jarring, too abrupt I felt and would provide the viewer no space and time to adjust to the new pace. Plus it didn’t feel like Applejack. Subjective, I know, but I’m going with instinct here.
Instead I needed a slower, steady build to transition from Ennio into the inevitable climax.

Around the same time there was a discussion about music on a certain IRC channel. Kid Koala came up and I was reminded of Slew Test 2.
0:13 and onwards was exactly what I was looking for. The song has a very unique vibe with its march like pace, retro voice samples and wailing guitar. It even includes a ton of scratching which might not immediately bring to mind “Western”, but I liked the idea of combining these new school elements with old school ones. Kind of what the song itself does.

Sergio Leone scratched, a Spaghetti western remixed, AJ the modern cowpony.
The mix was getting tasty.

So with a general idea I started laying the foundation of the video, taking into account the lessons I’ve learned from Shine Like Rarity:

Image

This here is my whiteboard, it includes an (old) shot of the timeline, a list of the shots that’ll be in the video and a couple of ideas for future shots. I update this whenever I have a section done or whenever the timeline is updated.
As you can see Pinkie Pie is thinking hard about what’ll happen in section 7. It apparently involves “ding ding ding ding ding ding*...

While setting this up I thought of ways to visually play with Slew Test 2. With the excellent riff and scratches in my mind I made the connection with Micheal Gondry. What I ultimately want is to create an audiovisual experience that’s more than the sum of its parts and Gondry does exactly that with Star Guitar and Around the World.
I’ve expressed my sheer desire to do something Gondry before and I figured “why wait?”

Thus Gondry was introduced to the existing mix of Remixed Applejack with a dash of Leone and Morricone, creating a well defined creative sandbox in which I can play and develop.
There are no huge lingering conceptual issues plaguing the back of my mind and I can just sit down and get things done.

So far then the process has been far smoother than the first draft and I’m far happier with this than I ever was with Draft One. Next to that I’ve picked up After Effects for all heavy duty motion graphics work, set up a smooth workflow and have danced not once, but twice in my seat (the default sign that you're on to something). One time I actually stood up and danced around my room for several minutes (the default sign that you're on to something times ten).

Thus continues the story of AJ's trailer! I'm not sure what the next entry will be about. I'd like to shed some light on the more practical side of things like After Effects work.
If anything I'm happy.
Isaak
User avatar
Equus Ludens :3
Semper Pie
Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Location: Dutchland!
  • Website

Post by Kraps (?) » Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:02 pm

You have a whiteboard for making videos of ponies. That is amazing. Do you do mixing/editing professionally as well?
<Pineyapple>when you've fucked up so bad that Tara Strong is calling you on your shit
<Pineyapple>that's pretty bad

Team GSD

Image
Kraps
User avatar
Don't be afraid.
Applejack Aces
Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Gender: Male

Post by Ragnar (?) » Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:08 pm

I like your drawing of Pinkie.
Ragnar
User avatar
What's older? Unicorns, or stars?
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Feb 14, 2011
Location: California
Gender: Male

Post by Isaak (?) » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:11 pm

Kraps wrote:You have a whiteboard for making videos of ponies. That is amazing. Do you do mixing/editing professionally as well?

Currently it's occupied by ponies, but it's home to all sorts of things: flowcharts, designs, lists, mindmaps and the like. It's a great tool to get your mind organized.
Professionally? That's a huge compliment! I don't... at least, not yet. I could start making things like bumpers I suppose, for AJ's trailer I'm using After Effects as an animation tool and I'm starting to get comfortable with it.
Ragnar34 wrote:I like your drawing of Pinkie.

Thanks! She has now figured out what's happening at part 7 :yay:
Isaak
User avatar
Equus Ludens :3
Semper Pie
Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Location: Dutchland!
  • Website

Post by Davyinatoga (?) » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:05 am

I see you've finally settled on "[...] Like Applejack"
ImageImageImage
Davyinatoga
User avatar
Ew, will you please just stop posting already so I can stop having to look at it?
Semper Pie
Joined: Jul 12, 2011
Location: *shrug*
Gender: Male

Post by Isaak (?) » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:59 pm

Stream in five. Combining Sergio Leone with Micheal Gondry, Kid Koala and Ennio Morricone!
Isaak
User avatar
Equus Ludens :3
Semper Pie
Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Location: Dutchland!
  • Website

Post by Isaak (?) » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:27 am

Image

(May not be in the proper framerate depending on your browser)
Isaak
User avatar
Equus Ludens :3
Semper Pie
Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Location: Dutchland!
  • Website

Post by Kraps (?) » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:50 am

:awesomedash: That looks great!
<Pineyapple>when you've fucked up so bad that Tara Strong is calling you on your shit
<Pineyapple>that's pretty bad

Team GSD

Image
Kraps
User avatar
Don't be afraid.
Applejack Aces
Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Gender: Male

Post by numsOic (?) » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:14 am

Why wouldn't that be in the proper framerate? The frames are 40ms each, right?
numsOic
Stare Masters
Joined: May 21, 2011
Location: Argentina
Gender: Male

Post by macchinainterna (?) » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:14 am

I'm loving this more and more as it comes together Isaak! :ohboy:
ImageImage
macchinainterna
User avatar
Have :twonk:, will travel!
Joined: Nov 27, 2011
Location: Colorado
Gender: Male
  • Website
  • Skype

Post by Isaak (?) » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:09 pm

numsOic wrote:Why wouldn't that be in the proper framerate? The frames are 40ms each, right?

... Maaaaaybe...?

In Photoshop I put the framerate on 23,976 and it looked fine in the preview, though it looks slower in IE and faster in Chrome. I'm missing something here, aren't I...?
Isaak
User avatar
Equus Ludens :3
Semper Pie
Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Location: Dutchland!
  • Website

Post by numsOic (?) » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:30 pm

It looks the same in Chrome and in my image viewer when I downloaded it, so maybe you're missing something. 40ms per frame is about right for show framerate. Strictly speaking, it'd have to be about 41.7ms per frame, but GIF can only handle hundredths of a second so that's as close as you're going to get.
numsOic
Stare Masters
Joined: May 21, 2011
Location: Argentina
Gender: Male

Post by Doctor Wheeze (?) » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:49 pm

I don't know if current versions of IE do this, but older versions ignore any frame time faster than 100ms and play it at 100ms/frame. This causes some gifs to play much more slowly in IE than browsers that handle gifs correctly (and also to make gifs that have been set up for IE often play very quickly in Chrome and Firefox).

Basically, IE :applejargh:
ImageImageImage
Image
Doctor Wheeze
User avatar
Stare Masters
Joined: Jul 25, 2011
Gender: Male
  • Website
  • Skype

Post by Killing Vector (?) » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:04 pm

It's because different browsers enforce a different minimum frame delay for gifs. According to this article I found via google, IE in particular has a minimum of 60ms; anything lower than that (such as the 40ms delay in that gif) gets bumped up to a 100ms delay when displayed instead. That article's from a few years back so it doesn't include Chrome and version updates may have changed the specifics for other browsers, but that's the gist of it.
ImageImageImageImage
Killing Vector
User avatar
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011
Gender: Male

Post by numsOic (?) » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:25 pm

I know current Chrome plays anything down to 20ms per frame. 10ms or zero-timed frames are played for 100ms.
numsOic
Stare Masters
Joined: May 21, 2011
Location: Argentina
Gender: Male

Previous Next

Return to One Art, Please!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest