S08E22: What Lies Beneath

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S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by Wayoshi (?) » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:30 pm

The students at Twilight's School of Friendship are cramming for a "History of Magic in Equestria" exam in the school library when they discover a part of the school that no pony else knows about.
This thread is for discussion of the episode. This episode airs at 8:25am AEST on Sunday, August 26 / 6:25pm US EDT on Saturday, August 25 on Boomerang in Australia!

Speculation about the episode is OK to post. Spoilers from the Swedish release are NOT OK to post.

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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by The Doctor (?) » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:32 pm

More time spent with the students? I'm all for that.

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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by SigmasonicX (?) » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:57 am

This episode just aired in Denmark and Sweden, as a heads up.

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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by Applepie2017 (?) » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:16 am

Now us in Denmark got an early release.
But...
This one's too young

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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by PonyHag714 (?) » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:54 am

I'm really curious about this one.
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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by PonyHag714 (?) » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:58 pm

I really liked this one. We learned some more about the students, and it was a good "face your fears" style message. It was nice to (sort of) see Chrissy again.

Silverstream was great. Even though I usually don't like kids with "atitude" in shows, I don't mind Gallus and Smoulder. Interesting how Gallus seems to be afraid of being alone, of being cut off from others. This seems to suggest that he's more sensitive than the front he puts up indicates.

Ocellus' fear was interesting in nature as well, fear that she hasn't really changed despite evolving.

Cozy Glow continues to be innocent acting and yet suspicious. Someone suggested that Chancellor Neighsay might be her father. Hmmm...:ponder:

I'll give it a 9/10, one of the best so far this year.
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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by The Doctor (?) » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:22 pm

I woulnd't have minded seeing this episode be stretched to 2 parts and have been the season finale.

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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by Wayoshi (?) » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:00 pm

PonyHag714 wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:58 pm
Cozy Glow continues to be innocent acting and yet suspicious. Someone suggested that Chancellor Neighsay might be her father. Hmmm...:ponder:
I wasn't really onto this theory (or at least that she's a relative), but the speciesist crap she said early seems to be a huge clue.

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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by Adiwan (?) » Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:23 am

Good episode. Full blast of the Dagobah dark side cave.
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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by Captain Rufus (?) » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:00 am

A good bit of fun. Lots better than the Rockhoof ep.

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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by Fizzbuzz (?) » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:09 pm

I have to say, I'm not sure I get the appeal of this one. It feels like this was mostly just a vehicle for whatever's to come in the finale, making it clear that the Tree of Harmony is a quasi-divine force and unclear as to whether Cozy Glow is actually evil or not. But to get there, it was mostly just some split-party adventures against illusions, almost a more positive retread of The Return of Harmony. I think I would've liked it more if the episode went further into the tree's changing power and status, but maybe that's something more suited for the finale or for S9.
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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by SlateSlabrock (?) » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:52 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:09 pm
I have to say, I'm not sure I get the appeal of this one. It feels like this was mostly just a vehicle for whatever's to come in the finale, making it clear that the Tree of Harmony is a quasi-divine force and unclear as to whether Cozy Glow is actually evil or not. But to get there, it was mostly just some split-party adventures against illusions, almost a more positive retread of The Return of Harmony. I think I would've liked it more if the episode went further into the tree's changing power and status, but maybe that's something more suited for the finale or for S9.
The new kids needed a solid episode to have emotions and work through problems, solidifying their team. Some of them were a little strange (Yona is the new Fluttershy?), but this is really the first time since their introduction that they've had the chance to do anything other than snark at the Mane 6. I'd rather they did a few more of these this season to flesh them out.

That said, the "puzzles" felt compressed for time, and I need to watch the iTunes version to see how it feels without commercial breaks. It's clearly a setup for the rest of the season/series, so being kind of vague and mystical is okay.

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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by Niels Olof (?) » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:57 pm

That was easily my favourite Student Six episode. They really came into their own in this one.

Also, Cozy needs to be kicked off a cliff in the finale.
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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by Aramek (?) » Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:35 pm

I LOVE COZY SO MUCH AND I INSTANTLY HAVE KINSHIP WITH HER!

HAHAHAHA!

She didn't even make a sinister face at the end, or say it in a spooky way!
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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by PonyHag714 (?) » Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:53 pm

I was impressed with Gallus and Smoulder for rising above what they admitted members of thier species would normally do (save themselves with no regard for the others.) The episode in general did a good job of giving the students some depth of character.
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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by The Doctor (?) » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:51 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:09 pm
I have to say, I'm not sure I get the appeal of this one. It feels like this was mostly just a vehicle for whatever's to come in the finale, making it clear that the Tree of Harmony is a quasi-divine force and unclear as to whether Cozy Glow is actually evil or not. But to get there, it was mostly just some split-party adventures against illusions, almost a more positive retread of The Return of Harmony. I think I would've liked it more if the episode went further into the tree's changing power and status, but maybe that's something more suited for the finale or for S9.
I still enjoyed this episode, but after seeing the finale (and no spoilers here), I wish this had been the finale and expanded on everything for pretty much all the reasons you listed.

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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by SigmasonicX (?) » Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:25 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:09 pm
I have to say, I'm not sure I get the appeal of this one. It feels like this was mostly just a vehicle for whatever's to come in the finale, making it clear that the Tree of Harmony is a quasi-divine force and unclear as to whether Cozy Glow is actually evil or not. But to get there, it was mostly just some split-party adventures against illusions, almost a more positive retread of The Return of Harmony. I think I would've liked it more if the episode went further into the tree's changing power and status, but maybe that's something more suited for the finale or for S9.
I was thinking the pilot with the different trials, but I didn't think of "The Return of Harmony". The implementation is closer to RoH.

I would have liked more exploration of the Tree of Harmony gaining sapience, but it does seem like something they'd pick up later, yeah. Though I am worried that this could lead to bad things in the story, since it could ruin the Tree's mystique and give the heroes too easy access to a powerful ally, I also think it would be fun if the Tree became a Data style character trying to understand humanity.

Copypasting from ResetEra.
I have to say, I didn't expect this episode to go the direction it did. I figured Twilight intentionally had a secret section of the School that was housing the Storm King's statue, but instead, the Tree of Harmony has gotten into its head that it should give mentally scarring tests to people who say they don't have friendship in their nature. Twilight really should look into what she's saying around the Castle to teach it this.

It looks like the Tree of Harmony destroying the clones in "The Mean 6" is getting a follow up after all, with it gaining sapience. Interesting that it chose Twilight as its avatar; I would have preferred a unique design for this purpose, but maybe later. When the Tree was explaining everything at the end, it spoke in they way I imagine Far Future Twilight speaking. This reminds me of how late in the TV series Person of Interest, the Machine chose to use Root's voice as its own.

I'm not sure giving the Tree a face is a great idea, since that could easily ruin its mystique and also give the heroes too easy access to a powerful ally, but it's not like it would come up much in the episodes remaining. Plus, with that ending, this is definitely going to lead to the villains somehow gaining control of it, so maybe becoming sapient wasn't the greatest idea, Tree.

So the roots of the Tree of Harmony have extended to below the School.of Friendship. I suppose that means Twilight's Castle really is part of the Tree of Harmony, since they made sure to establish the Castle came from it this episode and it would be odd if the roots came from all the way in the Everfree Forest.

I still take issue with the fact that Twilight's classes and tests are shown to be unpleasant for all the students. A show aimed at this target audience should be trying to make school look fun, and instead it's showing that even everyone's favorite princess can't help it.

Cozy Glow is acting more overtly evil now. I do wonder how people would have reacted without the season finale synopsis (and episode) leak. Would they have still found her suspicious in her earlier episodes?

I'm surprised this episode is addressing the idea that these other species are somewhat being treated as charity cases, what with them having to be taught about friendship at... whatever their ages are. It still didn't address the question of why there are so many teenage and older ponies at this school, though. Anyway, Yona and Silverstream were cute during the study session.

Tree being a dick aside, the friendship traps were interesting. I kind of take issue with Smolder turning out to like girly stuff, since that's a big cliche for tomboy characters, but Ember hasn't shown any interest in that sort of thing, so there's one dragon tomboy this doesn't apply to. Gallus's trap was weird in that it was the only trap to really involve thinking; I guess because he's been lazy in school. That claustrophobic sequence was pretty well done. Ocellus and Silverstream's traps made sense, though it was interesting that Ocellus viewed herself as Chrysalis. I wonder if that means anything. Yona's trap was kind of random, just getting Gallus waking her up before as set up. So can Yona talk to spiders in general now?

I thought it was odd that after Gallus and Smolder, everyone else needed help with their traps, but I suppose the test was to get the least friendly species to help the others. I suppose Gallus helping out Silverstream and her hugging him is a better reason to ship them than the absolutely nothing of Gallus and Sandbar. I figured the twist of the episode would be Sandbar being the one to fail his test or his friends seeing him continue on without them before he passes, but no, he did that on his own.

Overall, I thought this was an interesting episode. On a season wide level, I would have preferred more episodes looking at smaller groups of the Student Six or pairing them up with the Main Six more, as opposed to all of them being about the entire group, but on its own, this was good.
Also, Tree Twilight was way creepier in the animatic.

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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by PonyHag714 (?) » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:25 pm

A theory was floated around back before the season that Ocellus was Chrysalis in disguise, but I guess we can rule that out. As a fan of Ocellus, I would have found that horrible, but it would still have been a heck of a plot twist.
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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by Perpetual Motion (?) » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:34 pm

I'd say that Ocellus's test is the most interesting of the group. Each of them (except for Sandbar, I guess?) were explicitly faced with their worst fear. Most of them were pretty mundane (claustrophobia, arachnophobia), but Ocellus's worst fear was becoming Chrysalis. She's afraid that there's something inside her just as cruel, heartless, and evil. Now, whether the show follows through on that character thread in its last season is up in the air, but it's neat to think about in the meantime.

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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by PonyHag714 (?) » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:44 pm

Perhaps it's the same situation as ant colonies and bee hives, where certain individuals are raised to be queen. Chrysalis may have had this intention for Ocellus as her successor, but the Changelings were reformed first.
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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by Octavia (?) » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:50 pm

Loved this episode :awesomedash:
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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by Mechanical Ape (?) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:23 pm

“What Lies Beneath,” that was that thriller no one saw because the trailer gave away every twist, right?

• I agree, pony history is weird. The tree made the Elements which made a castle which made a map, and also I think Rockhoof’s shovel used to be one? :fluttershrug: I dunno, I just go with it. If I had to take a test on this crap I’d be screwed.
• Needless to say Cozy Glow has piles and piles of notes, ‘cuz she’s evil. She’s even looking forward to the test, the beast.
• Something underground? Well, I guess it’s finally happened: MLP:FiM is having a sewer level.
• Cozy Glow is a master at negging.
• Possibly-evil holographic AI Twilight? Okay show, you’ve got my attention. :ponder:
• I don’t think I knew Whatsername was a girl dragon!
• It’s ironic that Yona is scared of spiders, as they are the most smashable of creatures.
• Calling out the Storm King rules. :black101:
• spidarmy
• How Campbellian!
• Gotta admit, they’re doing a great job setting up something really evil with Cozy without saying exactly what or what her plan is.
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Re: S08E22: What Lies Beneath

Post by Mechanical Ape (?) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:32 pm

Aramek wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:35 pm
She didn't even make a sinister face at the end, or say it in a spooky way!
Agreed, that was such a creepy final shot BECAUSE it was so tonally ambiguous. Sinister music and what COULD be a sinister final line, but not delivered villainously.

With everycreature asleep, we expect Cozy to drop her cutesy pretense for the audience’s benefit, but she doesn’t. We get no reveal. It’s great.
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