The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wonders

[CorvusCaw]

Yeah, that would probably be Bi, but a man dating a woman with a penis is a heterosexual relationship, not a homosexual one.

However, it's worth noting that in the case of trans women, you have to be very cautious if you are a dick guy. Being attracted to someone's body is wonderful, but in the case where you have someone who is *not* comfortable with their body, you have to make sure that you're not initiating a relationship based on attraction to parts of their body they don't like.

Fetishization and objectification of one's partner is not a way to start a stable relationship, and a part of the reason behind the 'chaser' stereotype is that men who have a preference for women with penises are, by definition, attracted to a part of the body many women don't want, which can be dehumanizing.

Hidden for somewhat frank sex chat.

Beyond the risk of fetishization, an additional problem comes if there is an expectation from the man that the woman's penis is going to be a big part of their sex life, and the woman is not comfortable with it. Given how many women are *not* okay with having penises, expecting her to take an active role in the bedroom with hers is *not* something that should be assumed. With that said, that's not always the case. Some women are perfectly happy with their penises, but it's something that must be discussed.

Well yeah, there's all that; I was just responding to a question from the previous page, from a clinical viewpoint. Wasn't considering the deeper mechanics of the emotions of the people involved. Are "dick guys" a real thing?

[Hi.]

Well yeah, there's all that; I was just responding to a question from the previous page, from a clinical viewpoint. Wasn't considering the deeper mechanics of the emotions of the people involved. Are "dick guys" a real thing?

Yeah, that was a bit of a tangent, sorry.

But, sure. Objectification and silly nomenclature aside, different people like different things. Some have preferences for some types of legs, or butts, or breasts, or muscles, and some people have a preference for particular genitalia. Sexual preferences come in all shapes and sizes.

[Lazy]

Guys who like the idea of penises on women are actually not all that uncommon.

Yeah, I went through that discussion with the few people I'd discussed it with before, I was making a much, much bigger deal out of it than I needed to be. Still, I know people wanted to keep that kind of chat out of the thread before, so I was still hesitant to mention it here.

Well, I think it's pretty cool that you're more comfortable with it now than when we talked earlier. Repressing what you like sexually is bad, and being open about it(within reason, time and place etc.) is a lot more fun besides being better for your mental health.

[Bigdog]

You know, one of the positive side effects of the Internet and information sharing is the gradual realization that everyone has their harmless secrets, and therefore that none of them really matter all that much. Sex scandals that would have sunk careers decades ago are now increasingly yawned away. Everybody's weird, even if everybody isn't weird in exactly the same way.

This is something that I'm really happy about (though at the same time it isn't happening nearly fast enough for me, see my constant fears like the related ones I mentioned up the page that our society will go Big Brother before we actually reach the point where we're well-adjusted enough to use Big Brother somewhat properly).

It's not just fetish stuff, either. I long for the day when people don't have to worry at all about their academic, professional or social standing just because somewhere a digital image exists of them drunk with their dick or boobs (or both! ) out.

In an unrelated but still on-topic note, the SA Pride thread made me wonder when my city's pride stuff was going on, so I looked it up and found out that of course I already missed it because I'm a shut-in shithead with no friends.

[Bigdog]

On the subject of at what point (and for what reasons, and from whose perspective) something crosses the line from valid manifestation of sexuality into problematic pariah-bait, I was just glancing over a stack of my mother's Ms. magazines and saw one with the headline "Is One Woman's Sexuality Another Woman's Pornography?"

The date? 1985.

The more things change

[Luneshot]

So, yesterday was...interesting. I was driving on a fairly long trip with my mom, and we were just randomly chatting. The topic eventually came around to dating, and she said something along the lines of "You've never really shown much interest in girls." So without really thinking, I blurted out "That's because I'm gay." "Are you?" "Yes." "Okay." Which was immediately followed by me saying "Holy shit, I can't believe I just came out like that." Pretty much the best way I can describe it is that the feeling I got was approximately the same as the feeling of your stomach dropping as you jump out of a plane.

Turns out she had been suspecting it for a while, but she seemed pretty okay with it. I hadn't expected to come out this early but hey, at least I don't have to hide it. Now I just have to worry about my dad and my sister.

[londonarbuckle]

Alright Herr! Glad it went reasonably well! Proud of you!

[Fizzbuzz]

That's an awkward topic to bring up in general, but I'm glad she took it so well. Do you think the rest of the family would be more negative about it, or is it just the act of coming out (again) that bothers you?

[Snowfire]

[quote="Perpetual post_id=48714 time=1370752647 user_id=77]Speaking of self identification and the weirdness involved, I've made a rather... odd discovery.

Hidden for very personal sexual stuff:

So, while I've been pretty set in to the idea that I'm asexual for a while now, I've always masturbated somewhat frequently because it's extremely cathartic; I simply never had any particular gender in my mind when I did. Unfortunately, one of the side effects of my antidepressant medication is that doing so becomes extremely difficult. Looking to remedy that, I experimented with some... supplements to assist. They certainly did the trick, but I soon noticed that while they were in effect, I suddenly found the female form sexually appealing. So, basically, I'm technically heterosexual, but my libido is so naturally low that I might as well be asexual, making it drug-induced heterosexuality. It's just weird as hell, all things considered, but I still consider myself to be asexual, since the variation is created by external forces.

[/quote]

Your post made me want to talk about myself PL. Again, hidden because... well... because.

As I've said before in the GSM thread, I haven't been sexually attracted to anyone of either gender. I don't know whether it is because I have social anxiety, or a fear of them saying "no" if I ask them out, or if I truly am asexual.

However, when I have masturbated, I have always had a female in mind. I don't look at or watch porn, because I am not attracted to it and it does nothing for me. I usually have had a woman in mind who I have gone to school with, or have met, that I found attractive. However, if I met that same woman in public, I can't ask them out, no matter how hard I try. I can have a normal conversation with them, but I always am afraid "she will say no". "She has a boyfriend already... I mean she's beautiful and has a great personality... why would she want to be with me?" "I have too many medical problems now... no woman is going to want to be in a relationship with someone with so much baggage."

So yeah, in private, I am attracted to the women I have met in real life that I have found attractive. But when I am actually standing face to face with them...

I just want to be happy. I'm tired of this lonely feeling all the time. Is there something wrong with me?

EDIT: Grats Herr!

[Aramek]

[quote="Herr post_id=48745 time=1370819233 user_id=1] "Holy shit, I can't believe I just came out like that." [/quote]*super amazingly huge hug*

[Perrydotto]

Animal Crossing New Leaf already owns.

[Lazy]

^^^ Owns hardcore. ^^^[quote="Herr post_id=48745 time=1370819233 user_id=1] So, yesterday was...interesting. I was driving on a fairly long trip with my mom, and we were just randomly chatting. The topic eventually came around to dating, and she said something along the lines of "You've never really shown much interest in girls." So without really thinking, I blurted out "That's because I'm gay." "Are you?" "Yes." "Okay." Which was immediately followed by me saying "Holy shit, I can't believe I just came out like that." Pretty much the best way I can describe it is that the feeling I got was approximately the same as the feeling of your stomach dropping as you jump out of a plane.

Turns out she had been suspecting it for a while, but she seemed pretty okay with it. I hadn't expected to come out this early but hey, at least I don't have to hide it. Now I just have to worry about my dad and my sister. [/quote]Hooray! That's a pretty big hurdle to jump. Parents often are actually suspecting like that, too-which I suppose doesn't make much of a difference except they're less likely to make a big deal over it.

Your post made me want to talk about myself PL. Again, hidden because... well... because.

As I've said before in the GSM thread, I haven't been sexually attracted to anyone of either gender. I don't know whether it is because I have social anxiety, or a fear of them saying "no" if I ask them out, or if I truly am asexual.

However, when I have masturbated, I have always had a female in mind. I don't look at or watch porn, because I am not attracted to it and it does nothing for me. I usually have had a woman in mind who I have gone to school with, or have met, that I found attractive. However, if I met that same woman in public, I can't ask them out, no matter how hard I try. I can have a normal conversation with them, but I always am afraid "she will say no". "She has a boyfriend already... I mean she's beautiful and has a great personality... why would she want to be with me?" "I have too many medical problems now... no woman is going to want to be in a relationship with someone with so much baggage."

So yeah, in private, I am attracted to the women I have met in real life that I have found attractive. But when I am actually standing face to face with them...

I just want to be happy. I'm tired of this lonely feeling all the time. Is there something wrong with me?

So maybe it's more along the lines of you only feeling attraction towards someone once you're already(physically) aroused? Or just that when you're around them you don't feel it?
The latter could have to do with social anxiety-if you're nervous enough, you may not be feeling any sort of attraction. But I don't think I know enough about you to say.

As for the not liking porn, if you do experience attraction at least in certain contexts not liking porn may have to do with not having a connection to the people in it. Everyone's different with how that affects them, after all-some people aren't into anyone they don't have an emotional connection to, some people are.

And as for asking people out... this may not immediately help to hear, but basically everyone gets more no's than yes's. It's like baseball, a batting average that is less than half can still be relatively high. You just gotta swing and hope for the best, and if you miss, move on with your life.

[Snowfire]

So maybe it's more along the lines of you only feeling attraction towards someone once you're already(physically) aroused? Or just that when you're around them you don't feel it?
The latter could have to do with social anxiety-if you're nervous enough, you may not be feeling any sort of attraction. But I don't think I know enough about you to say.

As for the not liking porn, if you do experience attraction at least in certain contexts not liking porn may have to do with not having a connection to the people in it. Everyone's different with how that affects them, after all-some people aren't into anyone they don't have an emotional connection to, some people are.

And as for asking people out... this may not immediately help to hear, but basically everyone gets more no's than yes's. It's like baseball, a batting average that is less than half can still be relatively high. You just gotta swing and hope for the best, and if you miss, move on with your life.

It's the latter. I don't know whether it is because I'm nervous, or I really am not attracted to them. But the second I am talking to them, my mind just doesn't go there. I don't look at a woman for only her physical attributes, and honestly, I don't want to (because I think it sucks that guys do that), but... damnit, I should feel SOMETHING talking to them right?

This sucks.

Also Perry, that picture is awesome.

[Luneshot]

That's an awkward topic to bring up in general, but I'm glad she took it so well. Do you think the rest of the family would be more negative about it, or is it just the act of coming out (again) that bothers you?

I was getting used to chickening out before saying anything about it so I think I surprised myself more than her by being so blunt about it. As for family, I know for sure my closest sister wouldn't care at all. Of my older two sisters, one won't have a problem with it and I have no idea about the other. My dad is a total wildcard though- I have no clue how he would react, and I asked my mom and she doesn't know either. I worry about what my stepmom will think. Not because I care how she feels- she's a massive jerk and I couldn't give two shits about her. Instead, I worry about whether she'll influence Dad into holding it against me- she basically hates anything related to Mom's side of the family (including my sisters and I) and she'll probably pull the "well obviously he wasn't brought up right" card and shit like that.

[Kiith Soban]

Congrats, Herr! I hope your dad and sister are okay with that if you ever come out to them.

[diribigal]

In an unrelated but still on-topic note, the SA Pride thread made me wonder when my city's pride stuff was going on, so I looked it up and found out that of course I already missed it because I'm a shut-in shithead with no friends.

I don't remember if you tried this or not, but you could see if there's an LGBT/ethical society near you. Thanks to one, I just heard about Baltimore pride happening next weekend that I'm going to try to volunteer at.

[Octavia]

Congrats, Herr General!

The first person you come out to (that you're close with) is always the hardest. It gets easier from here on out.

[Timber72]

Yeah, congrats man, way to go. Hopefully your dad will be on board as well.

[Bigdog]

The first time I came out to somebody I was "close" to, I made sure to be "far" away from them.

As in, they were in Kansas City and I was in Los Angeles.

It's always a good thing when that goes well. Almost makes up for the incapacitating nausea that precedes it.

[BackgroundPony]

Nice, HG. That's substantially better than my experience, which could initially be charitably described as 'disgusted' and led to me moving out a few days later.

Good times.

But it sounds much better for you, so hooray!

[Mir]

Congrat HG! That must be a huge weight off your shoulders. Here's hoping it goes just as smoothly with the rest of your family.

[Ninetails]

Way to go, Herr General! I hope it goes well with the rest of your family!

...Come to think of it, I still haven't come out to my brother. I hope it goes well with me too

[Luneshot]

Congrat HG! That must be a huge weight off your shoulders. Here's hoping it goes just as smoothly with the rest of your family.

Actually, for some reason I feel a lot more anxious now than I did before- I've still got butterflies in my stomach and it's been like 24 hours. Beforehand I hadn't really planned on telling anyone for a while, so it wasn't something I was really worried about. But now it's kind of a "oh shit what the hell did I just do" feeling.

[Momo]

Your mom took it better than you thought - sometimes people will surprise you.

But just because you came out to your parents doesn't mean you need to step up your coming out schedule. The rest of the world can wait, and I am sure your parents will protect your privacy.

[londonarbuckle]

[quote="Herr post_id=48762 time=1370831393 user_id=1]

Actually, for some reason I feel a lot more anxious now than I did before- I've still got butterflies in my stomach and it's been like 24 hours. Beforehand I hadn't really planned on telling anyone for a while, so it wasn't something I was really worried about. But now it's kind of a "oh shit what the hell did I just do" feeling.[/quote]

This happened with me too. The feeling of relief you often hear about isn't universal by any means.

[Chaos Sonic]

This thread got kinda freaky for a bit.

Congratulations, Herr! Hope the rest of your coming outs (comings out?) go just as well or better.

Also Venusy, either that's more common than you think, or you and I are riding in the same weird boat.

[Ragnar]

Your shared boat makes no sense to me at all, which for some reason makes it hilarious.

Venusy, your fetish is the tamest thing this side of small dogs that live in rich lady's purses. I'm almost disappointed.

I was imagining all sorts of things when you first starting dropping dark hints, and I figured you'd eventually crack and then post a detailed explanation, to the awe and horror of everyone here.

Venusy post your porn folder
we won't laugh!
tell us your hangups
I have all fetishes and I'm wondering which one I share with you
Venusy eat the eggs describe the fetish
DO IT
Okay fine I'll tell you.
War crimes.
ppphffhahahahahaha
Yep, got that one
Don't mind me, just an ace who doesn't care about any of this
You're all fired.

[Venusy]

To be fair, I did always say that my fetishes are tame, just unrealistic, but you weren't the only one that had mentally built them up to be something much worse than they actually are. Apparently, a couple of people had got worried when I first started dropping hints, and me dancing around the issue didn't help at all.

[quote="Chaos post_id=48765 time=1370836845 user_id=92]Also Venusy, either that's more common than you think, or you and I are riding in the same weird boat. [/quote]
Well, it's always good to hear that I'm not alone!
I don't know how common it is, it's hard to get a read for these things, as they generally aren't discussed. It does seem to be a lot less common than my other fetish though, but maybe the other one is just easier to search for.

--

Also, congratulations Herr, hope everything continues to go well.

[Mr. Big]

Something I found: a 20-page comic about being an asexual.

Just a warning that it's NSFW, so beware.

[Angora]

To be fair, I did always say that my fetishes are tame, just unrealistic

To be fair they're more likely to happen than centaur fetishists

[Factory Factory]

Okay, so, please don't mistake people silently hoping the fetish chat will quiet down by itself for tacit permission to continue fetish chat.

[Snowfire]

[quote="Pony post_id=48770 time=1370862109 user_id=54]Okay, so, please don't mistake people silently hoping the fetish chat will quiet down by itself for tacit permission to continue fetish chat.[/quote]

Sorry PFF. I hope my post didn't come off as fetishistic. I just was honestly looking for advice from someone who maybe wasn't able to feel attracted to someone out in public, but was attracted to them in private. Maybe someone who has gone through social anxiety or something.

[Venusy]

[quote="Pony post_id=48770 time=1370862109 user_id=54]Okay, so, please don't mistake people silently hoping the fetish chat will quiet down by itself for tacit permission to continue fetish chat.[/quote]
Sorry about that.

[BackgroundPony]

I was wondering when that was coming. Almost thought we might make it off that topic without official orders for once, but it was not to be. Oh well, there's always next month, when the subject will probably come up again.

Edit: typo, argh

[Mordja]

Oh well, there's always next month, when the subject will probably come up again.

In the future, Ponygoons will be naught but a fetishistic speedtest.com community.

[Daionus The 23rd]

Fetishchat is for the IRC.

Anyways, while the comic is pretty neat, I still find the online culture surrounding asexuality to be annoying and smug, because of people who either look down on others who have sex or aren't actually asexual and desperate to feel "special". Also that cake stuff is annoyingly memetic.

[Fontra]

[quote="Herr post_id=48745 time=1370819233 user_id=1] So, yesterday was...interesting. I was driving on a fairly long trip with my mom, and we were just randomly chatting. The topic eventually came around to dating, and she said something along the lines of "You've never really shown much interest in girls." So without really thinking, I blurted out "That's because I'm gay." "Are you?" "Yes." "Okay." Which was immediately followed by me saying "Holy shit, I can't believe I just came out like that." Pretty much the best way I can describe it is that the feeling I got was approximately the same as the feeling of your stomach dropping as you jump out of a plane.

Turns out she had been suspecting it for a while, but she seemed pretty okay with it. I hadn't expected to come out this early but hey, at least I don't have to hide it. Now I just have to worry about my dad and my sister. [/quote]

Forgot to respond to this yesterday. Congrats, dude!

Goddamn I can't imagine the stress and frustration of trying to come out if I were gay (especially considering where I live). I actually found out yesterday that one of my old friends from high school came out to his family after he got done serving a mormon mission. Apparently his family still accepts and loves him and he now has a boyfriend and is very happy with his life. Still, I've heard some really awful horror stories of young mormon boys or girls coming out and bad shit going down.

[Weird Autumn]

[quote="Daionus post_id=48775 time=1370877954 user_id=1]
Anyways, while the comic is pretty neat, I still find the online culture surrounding asexuality to be annoying and smug, because of people who either look down on others who have sex or aren't actually asexual and desperate to feel "special". Also that cake stuff is annoyingly memetic.[/quote]
I don't know that I got that vibe, but it did kind of bother me how "I can't be in a relationship with someone who won't have sex with me" was portrayed as something ridiculous and unfair. I get that it must have seemed that way and I definitely sympathize with her perspective, but ultimately having compatible sex drives or at least being able to find a compromise that works for both sides is an important part of maintaining the health of a relationship and if never having sex isn't an arrangement that works for your partner it's not unreasonable for that to be a dealbreaker.

[Bigdog]

[quote="Opposing post_id=48777 time=1370879966 user_id=127]
I don't know that I got that vibe, but it did kind of bother me how "I can't be in a relationship with someone who won't have sex with me" was portrayed as something ridiculous and unfair. I get that it must have seemed that way and I definitely sympathize with her perspective, but ultimately having compatible sex drives or at least being able to find a compromise that works for both sides is an important part of maintaining the health of a relationship and if never having sex isn't an arrangement that works for your partner it's not unreasonable for that to be a dealbreaker.[/quote]

Yeah, that was my reaction as well, and I was actually going to ask for a check to see if I was being unreasonable.

The guy who wants sex certainly isn't a saint--I don't think he's being fair to either of them by accepting unenthusiastic oral or manual sex as tokens to buy his continuing participation in the relationship--but the scene where he first admits that, you know, he might not want to be sexually unsatisfied for the rest of his life, it feels like he's pretty solidly being painted as the bad guy there. I mean, I can understand her frustration and even identify with it on a analogical level since I personally probably have about the same odds of ever finding a partner that I'm wired close enough to for there to be no friction. But still, there are ways to deliver the message that being ace is OK without coming off as actively holier-than-thou.

[Scuderia]

[quote="Daionus post_id=48775 time=1370877954 user_id=1]Fetishchat is for the IRC.

Anyways, while the comic is pretty neat, I still find the online culture surrounding asexuality to be annoying and smug, [/quote]

Online life is the very face of posturing bullshit. It's not real life. It's like they're considering sexual orientation as a kind of personal branding to the world.
We aren't in high school anymore, jeez.