The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wonders

[Timber72]

Who is Berry?

Maybe our newer member BerryBlast?

[AmyL]

[quote="Paperback post_id=52654 time=1384412452 user_id=1]Raganti your avatar is killing me with cuteness oh my god

In other news, good for Stantis. It's pretty awesome that he can change his mind and publically admit it and talk about it. I like seeing this become an issue where people of all political stripes begin to support it.[/quote]


Good for him! Hopefully it will encourage other political cartoonists to come out in agreement with his stance regarding civil-unions.

[Red Terra]

Is it okay if i talk about a different type of philia?

If the timing isnt right, then i'll hold off

[Pingcode]

I found the kitty!

(USER WAS AIRLOCKED FOR THIS POST)

---

So this isn't a hit and run, bit of news!

I took the opportunity to come out to two more of my closest friends on my birthday, and they were totally cool with it! I knew I could count on them being hoopy froods.

[Headless Horse]

I found the kitty!

No! That is the bad kind of kitty!

[Venusy]

Is it okay if i talk about a different type of philia?

If the timing isnt right, then i'll hold off

It depends what specifically you want to talk about. This isn't the place to express exactly what turns you on, but that can be brought up in the IRC, and there are quite a few people you can PM who'd be willing to listen. Remember that there's no shame in having a kink or being vanilla, as long as whatever you're doing is safe, consensual, and not hurting anyone that doesn't want to be hurt (even with completely vanilla PiV intercourse, if one of the people is cheating on their partner, that is unethical - the partner is going to be hurt. If, on the other hand, a mutual agreement between the partners had been made beforehand, that would be ethical as long as the terms of that agreement are kept and the other criteria are also met).

[Octavia]

It's a lesbian romance movie that has apparently been kicking unholy ass in all sorts of film festivals.

If you want to see a kickass lesbian movie, I highly recommend But I'm A Cheerleader. The lead actress is currently in Orange is the New Black, the voice actor for Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender is in it, and you get to see Ru Paul not in drag.

[Rainbow Brite]

Ru Paul is too damn pretty, both in and out of drag.

[Momo]

and you get to see Ru Paul in painted-on bike shorts and a muscle t that says "Straight is Great".

FTFY.

Seconding this. It's an excellent movie with a great cast and every time I watch it I pick out another cleverly hidden suggestive image.

[Chaos Sonic]

Quick Turing Test: Quote only the kitty.

I Have Found Your Kitten, Meatba er, Fellow Human Being.

[West Filly]

Seeing a Turing test appear on the GSM thread reminds of the sad story of the man himself.

[Momo]

Not a coincidence.

The British government finally issued an apology for it in 2009. The act to issue him a formal pardon still hasn't passed the House.

The man who broke the enigma machine, and made one of the greatest contributions to the defeat of the Nazis that one man can make.

And - when he called the police after being robbed - was then prosecuted by the country he defended , stripped of all accolades, and subjected to inhuman anti-gay 'treatments' until he took his own life.

Has still not been pardoned.

For being gay.

[Timber72]

I have never heard that story, and now I am angry.

[Scuderia]

Who is Berry?

Quick Turing Test: Quote only the kitty.

YOUR ORGANONORMATIVE FELINE DETECTION TEST IS FRAUGHT WITH THE SUBTLE RACISM OF DIMINISHED EXPECTATIONS YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD

For being gay.

IIRC the thinking at the time is that being a 'sexual deviant' is a security risk and a threat to entrapment by soviet spies, which led to his termination at the intelligence service.
I'm sure all kinds of strings could be pulled, but I guess he wasn't as valued after the war, or that his contributions were a state secret.

And in the end - the british government effectively drove one of their Einsteins to suicide.

Governments sometimes make a lot of shitty calls in the name of their people.


Encryption is broken here
And Is Re-added here!

[Ninetails]

Talked to a therapist about gender stuff. Most important thing is that now my parents are gonna try to use the name Katelyn and female pronouns when talking to me!

...Try, at least. In the past few hours they've been really bad at it. Still, it's more amusing than annoying, and they're trying.

[Mir]

That's pretty cool, Kate. At least they're trying to be supportive.

[CorvusCaw]

Sounds like a good step for you, and for them. Like you said, they're trying.

[Ninetails]

Yeah, now I can say I'm finally starting to transition. Nothing physical yet, but I'm getting somewhere

Also, my mom bought a bunch of bras for me and one of them is all frilly and pink with ribbons.

[Tears]

[quote="Kitty post_id=52674 time=1384650834 user_id=137]Yeah, now I can say I'm finally starting to transition. Nothing physical yet, but I'm getting somewhere

Also, my mom bought a bunch of bras for me and one of them is all frilly and pink with ribbons.[/quote]

That's so cool, Kate. It must have been a huge thing to open up to your parents and it's great that they're being so supportive. You're super-brave

[BackgroundPony]

Not sure if anyone else watches Bill Maher's show Real Time on HBO, but he made some stupid ass transphobic joke last night. I always find him half amusing and half asinine anyway, but if anyone needed a new reason to dislike him, now you have one. It wasn't even a good joke. He pivoted off a news story about a petition to get a transwoman into the Miss America Pageant into making some crappy Victor's Secret joke. Instead of Victoria's, get it? Haha so funny!

But Kate's news is much happier! Congrats Kate!

[West Filly]

Oh, so that's why it's Victoria's Secret...

...Because people would be assholes if she ever said anything.

[Headless Horse]

Speaking (tangentially) of that—

Victor/Victoria is ostensibly one of the all-time great "gay" movies, what with Blake Edwards and James Garner and Robert Preston and Alex Karras and John Rhys-Davies and Julie Andrews singing her absolute heart out. It's an amazing piece of musical entertainment, full of gloriously staged Mancini pieces that are a joy to watch even if you don't completely buy the gag of Andrews as a woman convincingly impersonating a man impersonating a woman:



But there's one thing about it that vaguely bugged me the first time I saw it and has become less and less vague the more time has gone on.

There's one scene toward the end where macho nightclub owner King Marchand (James Garner), who has been falling in love with Andrews' character (Victoria) even though he thinks she's a man, gets tipped off that she's actually a woman, and sneaks into her bathroom to spy on her and confirm for himself that she's really a she. He slips out with a satisfied smirk on his face.

Later, there's this exchange:

Marchand: I don't care if you are a man. *smooch*
Victoria: I'm not a man.
Marchand: I still don't care. *smooch*

And if not for the bathroom scene, this would have been one of the most powerful and brave things for a major studio to put on the big screen ever, especially in 1982. But the bathroom scene, just by existing, sucks all the wind out of it. It leaves the revelation with no significance. It implies that everything between those two scenes has had no actual tension as far as Marchand is concerned, because he knows what's up; and he's not actually risking anything in the kiss, just playing along with a ruse.

I could swear I read somewhere that the bathroom scene was tacked on late in production at the insistence of someone at the studio who freaked out and got cold feet, but I can't seem to find it—nor do I know whether it was part of the original German movie that Victor/Victoria was based on, though I strongly suspect it wasn't. Either way it mars what is otherwise for me one of the most enjoyable viewing experiences I know of.

Anybody know more about this?

[West Filly]

A lot of sources on the internet are saying that Blake Edwards admitted in an interview that he "chickened out" by adding that scene. These sources say that Edwards intended for the character's love to blossom before he was certain about the character, which is why the line 'I don't care if you're a man' was in there.

While these sources are saying that, no one's showing me the interview or an article. There's a possibility of this just being a popular rumour. I think it makes sense, though, and it's an interesting story that I hope is true.

[londonarbuckle]

Kate! That's really awesome to hear, and it makes me want to talk to my mom about things again! Girly stuff has really been on the backburner for me lately while I deal with my depression and lack of confidence but I really want to try and take charge of my life on my terms.

Also I stopped watching Real Time months ago. Bill Maher's getting to be too dumb too often (although he's always been remarkably hacky, so I can't say hearing a lame, easy transphobic joke from him is too surprising.)

[Madeline]

Kate! That's really awesome to hear, and it makes me want to talk to my mom about things again! Girly stuff has really been on the backburner for me lately while I deal with my depression and lack of confidence but I really want to try and take charge of my life on my terms.

Also I stopped watching Real Time months ago. Bill Maher's getting to be too dumb too often (although he's always been remarkably hacky, so I can't say hearing a lame, easy transphobic joke from him is too surprising.)

Bill Maher has never been good at anything but being a smug shitlord. I propose a bipartisan mission to tie him and Dennis Miller to a rocket and launch them both into the heart of the sun. This would fill me with a deep and abiding sense of satisfaction.

If nothing else, maybe a guest will hit him over the head with a chair, as on Geraldo's old talk show.

[BeautifulShy]

It is good to hear that your parents are trying with female pronouns and the like Kate. It is good to see you moving forward.

Small update on myself I went to Palm Springs Pride back at the start of November with my Center and I also was presenting as female and was in my Halloween costume which was a school girl outfit with platform heels and stockings and a skirt. With the platforms on I was just over 6 feet tall. I am a pretty small person. I think I confirmed something while I was there too about my orientation. I like guys and girls but it can be passionate and gentle and in the middle ground but not really going to that far extreme if you get what I am saying.

Other than that I have been recently been figuring out what type of Femme I am and I think I am a mix of a sporty femme and a girly femme.

[Perpetual Motion]

Man, a random identity crisis is one hell of a way to not get to sleep. Maybe venting about it here will help. I just don't know what I am. I know who I am, and if I were the only person in the world, then this wouldn't be bothering me. I know what I want to be like, in terms of presentation, but I don't know what I want that to mean to the world at large, and I don't think I can settle for pinning myself in this nebulous non-binary gray-area.

If I were to envision an "ideal me", I'd see myself with a female body, wearing predominantly male clothes, and using a whole mishmash of mannerisms. I understand this, and I'm sure of it. But... what about everyone else? I don't feel fully comfortable having people see me as a man or a woman, but I'm definitely not comfortable with seeming like something in between, or something that makes people question or mistake my preferred gender. I don't want to fit into society's little boxes, but I want others to see me in those little boxes, if that makes any sense. From a logical point of view, I could settle on a tomboyish female identity and get what I want out of that, but I can't reconcile that idea with the fact that I have never ever had any problem with the male identity I've had for my entire life. Everything I've wanted to be different about myself has been from a physical perspective, not a social one. Something seems wrong about swapping gender identities to appease logic like that. After all, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

How am I supposed to reconcile my "ideal self", which most easily registers as female, with my nebulous identity, which has more or less always been male? I'm losing a lot of sleep over this, and I could really use some thoughts from everyone else, even if it's just words of encouragement for figuring this out for myself. I just need to know that this problem makes sense, and that I'm articulating everything understandably.

[Momo]

I firmly believe that everyone should take at least one philosophy course in their lifetime. I think perhaps the most pertinent school of thought on gender identity would have to be Sartrean existentialism, particularly the conflict between the inner self and the observed self. A lot of being trans has to do with the look of the other, moreso I'd say than most cisgendered people. When you are aware you're being looked at, you perceiving yourself as an object in another person's consciousness. Yes, people tend to feel a lot better about themselves when they are perceived by others as female, but that presentation has absolutely nothing to do with your identity. Your concept of self is female, whether or not you're being perceived as female. Where the problem lies is when the observed self is in conflict with what you know about your authentic self. Ontological crisis is the root cause of gender dysphoria, and Sartre very elegantly presents that without even intending to.

I'd start by reading Being and Nothingness. Despite the name, it's actually quite upbeat. Then read some peer-reviewed interpretations of it. Then read it again. Then read No Exit.

Unfortunately, you're not going to get many answers there. Because the question you're asking has no answer. Philosophy is all about the search for questions. More to the point, the right questions. And those are the things only you can answer, because they're going to be very different coming from anyone else. If you're anything like me, though, you'll find the search for those questions, and their answers, to be deeply fulfilling.

[Hi.]

Ontological crisis is the root cause of gender dysphoria.

I think it's a stretch to say it's the root cause. It can be a cause, sure. But I think it's pretty likely there is an underlying biological cause for some cases of gender dysphoria.

[Momo]

I really don't think there's a biological cause to being upset that your mind doesn't match your body. It's not the cause of the transgenderism, but it is the cause of the dysphoria. It's also the reason many people feel so much better when they transition.

[West Filly]

Gender dysphoria is defined as the feeling caused by an incongruence between internal feelings and experiences of the world and/or your body. Momar is, in fact, making a tautology.

For example, men being unmarried are how the world has bachelors. People feeling an incongruence between their personal identity and the way things within their experience identify them is how dysphoria occurs.

That's not a criticism of Momar's statement. Rather, in saying this, I'm trying to draw you to the point of what Momar was trying to say. The point is not how Gender dysphoria is defined or caused. The point is that Sartre's work explores this kind of incongruence in depth, and may allow us to better understand the experiential, societal and personal systems that influence our ideas of self, which are related to the incongruence. After all, if the fundamental principles of cognitive behavioural therapy are to be believed, understanding your ways of thinking can help you to live more harmoniously with your mind.

At least, that's what I got out of this.

[Hi.]

I really don't think there's a biological cause to being upset that your mind doesn't match your body. It's not the cause of the transgenderism, but it is the cause of the dysphoria. It's also the reason many people feel so much better when they transition.

I'm personally not a big believer in mind-body dualism, and I believe there is a biological/physical cause for everything, but that's getting kind of outside of the scope of this thread.

My main problem is that I have trouble wrapping my head around how gender and sex connect when we're talking about transgenderism. As far as I can tell, we're conflating two things. Dysphoria over sex (IE: physical parts of one's body), and dysphoria over gender (IE: someone's personality and presentation, and how others perceive them as a result of it).

However, they're never in a vacuum, so we look at them together. If someone has dysphoria over their physical bodies, the current most effective treatment (usually) requires a social transition as well, and the questions of gender are inevitable. On the other hand, if someone is dysphoric about their gender, society's expectations of the physical attributes of a particular gender would no doubt lead to dysphoria over them.

I don't know. It just seems that we shouldn't *have* to connect the two. I think that if someone is dysphoric about physical aspects of their body, and changing them is the only remedy, then change them. If someone is dysphoric about how they are perceived by others, then change the aspects of themselves that shape people's perception. Questioning yourself because you're dysphoric about one thing, but not the other, seems counterproductive. You should probably worry more about what you *are* feeling, than what you *aren't*.

[Madeline]

If there is no biological component to gender dysphoria, then why have HRT at at all? What about the perceived brain differences between a cisgender man vs a MtF woman? Surely biology matters in some way.

[Perpetual Motion]

At this point, I don't really care what the basic root cause is. All I know is that I have two conflicting views of myself, and I'm not able to just let them go. It very much is what I am feeling, not what I'm not feeling. Fixing my current dysphoria will cause dysphoria in the opposite direction, and I don't want to be caught in an endless loop.

[Somnambula]

Hi, all.

Stopping by to introduce myself. I'm 22 years old and bisexual (with a strong lean towards full-on-lesbian) and so I expect I'll pop in here now and again. I'm currently doing okay with my sexuality; don't have any significant problems with my work or family.

My current frustration is simply my inability to find a substantial queer community. I live in the San Francisco bay area, but in the southern part of the Peninsula. It's like all the gays have fled up to San Francisco, leaving a heteronormative wasteland in their wake. Okay, it's not that bad - I have it better than loads of people! But when I tried to join several LGBT Youth & support groups, I found them to be extremely under-attended. (Usually only 3-5 people.) I feel ready to date and get involved with the queer community...I just can't find where everyone is hiding.

[BeautifulShy]

Welcome Somnambula to this thread and the site.

I was kinda thinking of moving earlier in the year up there but decided against it since I want to try and help things grow here in the Inland Empire as far as the LGBT culture goes. Once I am further along in my transition I will likely move to a place with more resources. So LA or somewhere in the Bay area up there.

Hope you find someone here that can help you in that area or someone else that can point you in the right direction.

[Ninetails]

Welcome, Somnambula!

I only had to look at your name three times to spell it properly

[Somnambula]

[quote="Kitty post_id=52693 time=1384749607 user_id=137]Welcome, Somnambula!

I only had to look at your name three times to spell it properly [/quote]

I do my best to protect against identity theft.

[Weird Autumn]

It's too bad the Comment Box isn't around anymore

[TryksterJawbreaker]

Nothing says transgender awareness week like wearing purple and sweet sweet urine mints.