The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP:FiM

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agradify

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by agradify » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:11 pm

The post pins Pinkie trying to justify Gilda's increasingly bad actions on the her belief that "any friend of my friend must be my friend too!" Which is weird, because I could've sworn that Pinkie already had come to the conclusion that Gilda was bad, and she only changed her mind and tried to justify her after Twilight suggested that Pinkie was being the unfair one.

Also, someone may want to tell Charlotte Fullerton/Merriwether Williams about the "Unforgivable Sin." Clearly they are not aware of it, if Putting Your Hoof Down is any indication.

fenster

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by fenster » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:33 pm

^^^ Yeah, in general this guy doesn't really know the motivations that are going on.
PictishBeast wrote:I wasn't sure where to put this, but here's an interesting article that makes an argument for viewing Equestria as a society of geeks, and that many characters react to plot situations under the assumptions of the Five Geek Social Fallacies.
:ponynet:
Man, there is so much that is off in this. First off, it gets into the "Geek Fallacies", which aren't exclusive to geeks in the slightest and should just be labeled as "Social Fallacies" (and even then there are some issues with the fallacies themselves). But then, the application of the fallacies don't really line up, particularly with the opening segments and Gilda at the end.

Heck, there's even this:
Froborr wrote:but compared to Rogers (who by my count has had three good episodes, four forgettably mediocre ones, and three stinkers, of which "The Ticket Master" was the first and least bad)
Next week: Giant bears, Tall Poppy Syndrome, and the first pony writer since Lauren Faust I consistently like.
Image

Either this guy meant to say Ticket Master was the best of Rogers' in a misleading way, or he doesn't remember that Lauren contributed to the script of Ticket Master. :rariwhat:

Twilight wrote:Charlotte Fullerton did a good job in S1, but seriously just bombed in S2. I didn't like any of her episodes there.
It's funny you say that, because Fullerton wrote May the Best Pet Win and Baby Cakes, which I'd say are among the strongest episodes for characterization in Season 2.

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Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Perpetual Motion (?) » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:34 pm

Another thing that blog post said that was strange was that Gilda was literally irredeemable because she was mean to Fluttershy. Usually people just say that jokingly, but here the writer was dead serious, even offerering up analysis of other characters who were not mean to Fluttershy and therefore got happy endings. Also, that logic is flawed due to the fact that those flight school bullies from Sonic Rainboom came around in the end, and were then later shown to have bullied Fluttershy in Cutie Mark Chronicles. Iron Will was also quite harsh to Fluttershy, only to be revealed to be a minotaur of his word and quite reasonable.

Timber72

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Timber72 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:40 pm

fenster wrote: It's funny you say that, because Fullerton wrote May the Best Pet Win and Baby Cakes, which I'd say are among the strongest episodes for characterization in Season 2.
I hate Baby Cakes, and May the best pet win was a very weak episode for me.

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Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Headless Horse (?) » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:40 pm

Perpetual Lurker wrote:Another thing that blog post said that was strange was that Gilda was literally irredeemable because she was mean to Fluttershy. Usually people just say that jokingly, but here the writer was dead serious, even offerering up analysis of other characters who were not mean to Fluttershy and therefore got happy endings. Also, that logic is flawed due to the fact that those flight school bullies from Sonic Rainboom came around in the end, and were then later shown to have bullied Fluttershy in Cutie Mark Chronicles. Iron Will was also quite harsh to Fluttershy, only to be revealed to be a minotaur of his word and quite reasonable.
It's pretty transparently not something the writers planned, making that a "rule" of the show or anything. I don't know why he's harping on it like that.

Correlation is not causation. Nor is coincidence. :-/

Wonkadoo

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Wonkadoo » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:43 pm

Headless Horse wrote:
It's pretty transparently not something the writers planned, making that a "rule" of the show or anything.
That is irrelevant, because postmodernism. :spike101:

Ashenai

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Ashenai » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:44 pm

Twilight wrote:I hate Baby Cakes, and May the best pet win was a very weak episode for me.
I've read your posts in the other thread and I feel like I understand where you're coming from with Baby Cakes now, but what didn't you like about MTBPW?

AlliterativeAxolotl

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by AlliterativeAxolotl » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:59 pm

Ashenai wrote:I've read your posts in the other thread and I feel like I understand where you're coming from with Baby Cakes now, but what didn't you like about MTBPW?
I kind of understand that he does not like MTBPW. Both the song and the contest were :awesomedash: but the end was not so good, too forced :rainbert: It became boring because, for the last few minutes after Rainbow Dash got stuck under that rock, one could foresee how the rest of the episode would go - of course Rocket saves her, of course she keeps him after that. And the bending of the rules was :facehoof:

Other than that it was fun for me :-I

edit: I really like Twilight's honest opinions on episodes by the way, I might not agree with him in some cases but he always makes me think about why I like this or that episode and what could make it a weak one. So keep on going Twi :excite:

Ashenai

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Ashenai » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:04 pm

AlliterativeAxolotl wrote:edit: I really like Twilight's honest opinions on episodes by the way, I might not agree with him in some cases but he always makes me think about why I like this or that episode and what could make it a weak one. So keep on going Twi :excite:
Yeah, this. You're an interesting and offbeat person Twilight, and I really enjoy hearing your perspectives on things. Please don't be hesitant to share :)

Timber72

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Timber72 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:09 pm

Ashenai wrote:
I've read your posts in the other thread and I feel like I understand where you're coming from with Baby Cakes now, but what didn't you like about MTBPW?
It just bored me. The best part is the middle of the episode when all the pets are doing tricks for Dash. That's funny and entertaining, but not enough to redeem the boring song and race. I don't like lyrically driven music, I like melodic music. The biggest thing though: Dash is probably my least favorite pony, specifically because of her attitude in this episode. She's annoying. Not funny, haha like a clown annoying. She just goes on and on and on ughhhhhh :twonk:
We get it, you're the coolest pony. No need to remind us every 2 milliseconds.

I've heard the argument that a lot of people don't like Pinkie Pie because they know somebody who's as annoying and bubbly as her in real life.
I have a friend just like Dash in real life that goes on about how rich, successful, and awesome his sex life is. It's complete cognitive dissonance though; he doesn't even realize he does it and gets annoyed by arrogant people. To put it lightly, it's annoying.

Edit: I apologize to those who like Dash. She's pretty cool in some episodes, but I'm just being honest about this one.
Edit2: I made is sound like I hated the song. I don't. I just get a bit bored until the end when the song picks up pace.
Edit3: I'd also like amend: I've never actually inspected why I don't like this episode. I just generally didn't have as much fun watching it, and I kind of see it in a 'negative' viewpoint when I think back on all of MLP. This was my first time exploring why I didn't actually like it.

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Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Aramek (?) » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:27 pm

Twilight wrote:I have a friend just like Dash in real life that goes on about how rich, successful, and awesome his sex life is.
He sound super awesome, and you should hang around with him more. :awesomedash:
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Timber72

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Timber72 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:04 pm

Aramek wrote: He sound super awesome, and you should hang around with him more. :awesomedash:
He's really nice and fun to hang around with. Sometimes he just doesn't know when to shut his yap though haha.

fenster

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by fenster » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:10 pm

aaaaaah, site error while editing the below post :twonk:
Last edited by fenster on Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fenster

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by fenster » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:12 pm

Twilight wrote:
I hate Baby Cakes, and May the best pet win was a very weak episode for me.
Okay, having just read that discussion from the other thread, now I think I get you. It's okay that you don't like an episode that everyone else doesn't like! Just take me for an example and never apologize and say it's eveyrone else who is wrong. :smug:
Twilight wrote:The biggest thing though: Dash is probably my least favorite pony, specifically because of her attitude in this episode.
The really funny thing is, I'm about as opposite as you can get here. Before this episode, I had always wanted to really like RD since I'm fond of that type of character who thinks they are so cool and tries their hardest, and I like them best when that desire to be "cool" is at ends with other things that they care about like friendship. When you look at RD from the pilot, you just take a quick look and you know that's almost exactly what was set up here. Self-obsessed for a cool image? Aspiring to be with the coolest/best fliers in the land? "Element of Loyalty" and the whole Shadowbolt incident? It's pretty much the most obvious characterization up till that point in the show if you ask me.

This type of character will usually have some sort of episode/story where they get closer and closer to the image that they aspire to be, but it starts to widdle down their previous relationships and morals and dreams, and it forces them to think, "How much does this new image mean to me? Is this who I really want to be? What does it even mean?", where these introspective questions are asked and they must find the answer that will end up defining who they are, were, and will be. For RD, what I basically expected/wanted was some sort of episode where she would have to specifically be conflicted by the "cool" image and her friends. And you can even see this in some of her bits in eseveral pisodes, such as with the Shadowbolts, Griffon the Brush-Off, MTBPW, Mare Do Well, and Read it and Weep, but it was never exactly what I was asking for in those cases. It always felt like the show was skating around the one moment I wanted but never doing anything direct on this front, which is funny because Rarity DID have an episode that was exactly this with Sweet and Elite.

Up until MTBPW, I'd never really gotten into RD since, like you said, she just came across as some jerk more so than someone specifically "cool". However, once I saw MTBPW, I actually felt like I saw a little of that aspiring cool character that initially interested me, which really made me actually get into what RD was doing in the episode for once. A lot of people think Sonic Rainboom is her at her coolest moment or some such thing, but to me, I didn't really appreciate her until this episode and I really wanted to see if they could go on with that. Unfortunately, since then there hasn't really been much for her on that specific conflict with her "cool image" as I described, so she sank back down on my favorites again.

What made MTBPW so specific in making me like RD more than other episodes? I think it's because, outside of the pilot, it feels like the only time that there was any conflict about her image, or at least the closest thing to a conflict about image at that point.
Twilight wrote: I have a friend just like Dash in real life that goes on about how rich, successful, and awesome his sex life is. It's complete cognitive dissonance though; he doesn't even realize he does it and gets annoyed by arrogant people. To put it lightly, it's annoying.
This is probably inserting my own opinion into characterization too far, but I never felt like this was how RD was supposed to be. She starts off in the pilot being lazy, looking like a slacker who had potential and aspirations to do greatness, but the little conversation from Sonic Rainboom ("Too many rules, not enough naptime") shows that she may be hindered by her own laziness. She literally is a flight school dropout afterall, and for that I see her as someone who would talk great stuff about how good they, thinking they are above anyone else, all while neglecting their mediocre un-flashy work/life; basically, she seems more "down on her luck but with potential greatness" rather than the friend you describe who sounds like someone who is successful but has no self-reflection about their position in relation to people who are below them (I actually have a brother who was like this). It's a slight change in the dynamic, but I think it makes all the difference in making RD seem more like an underdog, which are usually more relatable to common folk like us.

Timber72

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Timber72 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:02 pm

^ I think that's a fair and well thought out assessment of Dashie. It doesn't stop her from grating on my nerves though haha. I liked dash best in Hurricane Fluttershy. She was responsible, charismatic, loyal to the team, caring, and actually likable. That's the Dash I want more of. I want confident but not annoyingly braggart Dash!

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Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Headless Horse (?) » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:38 pm

Speaking personally, I want more of the "mouth before brain" Dash. The one who danced in the air singing "I got the ticket, I got the tiiiiicket". The one who put down Trixie by yelling "Magic schmagic! Boooo!" while her unicorn friends stood right next to her. The one who would have pranked Fluttershy into a wailing mess if Pinkie Pie hadn't stepped in and stopped her.

It's a weirdly sweet and charming kind of thoughtlessness that she has, where you can tell she means well, and wants to do right by her friends, but when it comes to tact and empathy she honestly doesn't know any better than to just let fly with whatever emotion or impulse leaps to mind first. She doesn't bother hiding her selfishness, which only points out that selfishness is a natural sentiment everyone has—most people are just able to keep it in check when necessary.

It's a very different thing from the pompous, self-aggrandizing braggadocio of Hearth's Warming Eve or Read It And Weep or even, yes, Best Pet. The best occasions in S2 for that kind of Dash characterization have been SSCS6K ("Why didn't you make enough cider for everyone? Or at least for me?") and, yes, Hurricane Fluttershy, where she shows off both sides—the innocently tactless side and the annoyingly self-important side—and mashes them both into a box when she has to shift gears to win over Fluttershy for the tornado job.

I hope we see more of that kind of thing in S3, particularly the silly tactlessness, because I think it's simply a lot funnier than the other ways Dash gets characterized.

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Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Durandal (?) » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:03 pm

Headless Horse wrote:I hope we see more of that kind of thing in S3, particularly the silly tactlessness, because I think it's simply a lot funnier than the other ways Dash gets characterized.
As I'm reading this my mind can only fixate on one image
Image

I do totally agree that the "well-intentioned but overenthusiastic" Dash is a lot more interesting to watch than "overly cool smug braggart" dash. It's makes me really want to see an ep where her self-confidence gets challenged and she has to confront the fact that maybe she isn't actually the best at everything.

VVV Oh wait, yeah, I forgot about that episode....

.........um.......
Last edited by Durandal on Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Timber72

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Timber72 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:18 pm

Durandal wrote:
As I'm reading this my mind can only fixate on one image
Image

I do totally agree that the "well-intentioned but overenthusiastic" Dash is a lot more interesting to watch than "overly cool smug braggart" dash. It's makes me really want to see an ep where her self-confidence gets challenged and she has to confront the fact that maybe she isn't actually the best at everything.
MMDW pretty much did that.

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Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Aramek (?) » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:15 pm

Durandal wrote:As I'm reading this my mind can only fixate on one image
Image
Look at her "don't give a fuck! :v: " dance. That's adorable.
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fenster

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by fenster » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:55 pm

Headless Horse wrote: It's a very different thing from the pompous, self-aggrandizing braggadocio of Hearth's Warming Eve or Read It And Weep or even, yes, Best Pet. The best occasions in S2 for that kind of Dash characterization have been SSCS6K ("Why didn't you make enough cider for everyone? Or at least for me?") and, yes, Hurricane Fluttershy, where she shows off both sides—the innocently tactless side and the annoyingly self-important side—and mashes them both into a box when she has to shift gears to win over Fluttershy for the tornado job.
I agree about this trait for Rainbow Dash, and how it is mostly missing in Season 2 (including MTBPW) and that only glimmers of it can be seen, but I honestly don't see any of that character at all in Hurricane Fluttershy, except near the end when they fail the storm the first time and RD is sort of going crazy to get back in there while Twilight tries to stop her. Her line, "If I'm going down, I'm going down flying!", that she busts out after spending most of the episode collected and more thoughtful than usual, has that same old charm by feeling direct as if she just decided to let her emotions go and not hold anything back. It has a sort of charisma attached with it that actually fits the scene (though I have many, many other problems with that scene). However, RD most everywhere else in the episode is just collected as she takes on the role of the new apparent leader of the ponyville pegasi. She only breaks it in the scene I mentioned, when FS comes back the first time she has a big stupid grin on her face (which I guess could be taken for the more spontaneous RD?), and when RD is all showing off her wingpower after Thunderlane (which is more like the pompous Dash you spoke of in S2).

Personally, I'd look towards the episodes surrounding 2x22, Dragon Quest and Ponyville Confidential. In Dragon Quest, RD has that one scene where, when Spike is taken away by the dragons, RD tries to fly after them in the Dragon Costume but ends up almost throwing the trio into a lava pit where she clearly remarks how she is only thinking about rescuing spike. Ponyville Confidential is the interesting one to look at, in my opinion, since it brings up an RD who isn't comfortable with getting a hooficure (something only really seen in Swarm of the Century when RD was testing that outfit for Celestia at the Boutique), an RD who completely flips when she has her embarrassing story published that ruins her image (a combination of her Sonic Rainboom style freakout and a little of that "cool image" focus that I talked about earlier), and her frank disapproval of the CMC when she finds them to be Gabby Gums and just puts a storm cloud over their head (which I think fits more with the "Speak with your Heart" RD we are talking about here).




Did anyone ever notice that one Scootaloo line, "Maybe Rainbow Dash will give us a story! She's always good for some gossip" ? Am I the only one who thought that she wouldn't be much of a gossiper, and more of a in-your-face brawler who would let you know if she had a beef with you?

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Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Headless Horse (?) » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:02 pm

What I had in mind for Hurricane Fluttershy was the tactless way she kept trying to drag Fluttershy kicking and screaming onto the team. Rather than trying to talk her insecurities out with her, she kept just sort of bullying her into it—flushing her out of the tree costume, showing no sympathy whatsoever during the scene at the door with the fake illness, and the "suck it up" line (which is pretty dang harsh). It's the kind of treatment she'd give a much stronger and more resilient team member, as though she's totally forgotten who it is she's dealing with (or doesn't care).

agradify

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by agradify » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:08 pm

Every time I see that placeholder Dash victory dance I lose all train of thought and stare at it for several minutes. It's sooooo hypnotising :v:

But yeah, I like adorably outspoken Rainbow Dash more than image-obsessed narcissist Rainbow Dash. Those little selfish outbursts that were so prominent in Season 1 were endearing with the knowledge that she was well-meaning at heart. When her jerkiness was ramped up later on she didn't come off as well-meaning so her appeal kinda wore out. Especially for MtPBW and MMDW... there's only so much I can stand someone bragging about themselves before it grates on me!

I do hope that they manage to pull out some episodes where they reconcile the two sides to her in the future. Headless cited Hurricane Fluttershy, although I really don't see her jerky side in that episode myself. I'd probably go for Boast Busters, where she calls out Trixie for being a show-off while being plainly aware she herself is one too.
fenster wrote:words
You and I couldn't be more different! What I love about Dash was that she is athletic and brash, but she subverts the stereotypical jock role. She never aspires to be anyone else's definition of "cool," like so many sports-obsessed characters in fiction have. She even told Gilda just that in their confrontation at the end of GtBO, "if being cool is all that you care about..." I don't think projecting an image so others thought that she was cool was ever a part of her. Her athleticism isn't some hollow attempt at being seen as cool; she's practiced and driven herself as hard as she could. She could've taken the easy way out and done just ten barrel rolls in a row at the Best Young Fliers' Competition - something that was still judged to be hard and as such would impress everyone - but she didn't. Instead, she attempted to do something thought near-impossible, the Sonic Rainboom. Yes, pulling it off would win all the audience and the Wonderbolts over, but it offered one thing that the other contestants' tricks didn't - A challenge. Because she's self-driven. She works hard because no matter how much she wants to wow everyone else, above all else she wants to impress herself. At the very most, she wants to fit her own definition of cool, but would never want to pretend she's something she's not to fit in.

And then they play the stereotype straight in MtBPW :fluttersmith: . At least that's how I see it. :pinkieshrug:

EDIT: Ah, fenster and Headless have given examples of Dash being pompous in Hurricane Fluttershy since I started this. Oh, well.

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Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Perpetual Motion (?) » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:08 am

I'm kinda failing to see the difference between outspoken Dash and narcissist Dash. Look at her introduction in Episode 1. In the space of one short encounter, she brags about her skills, successfully demonstrates said skills, attempts to help clean Twilight up, accidentally makes things worse, then laughs at her for it. It was the perfect introduction to her character, and it demonstrated both traits people are talking about here. They're just two sides of the same coin.

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Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Headless Horse (?) » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:22 am

They may both be canonically "her", but one of them is just a lot more likable than the other. :pinkieshrug:

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Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Dr. Forums Worst Poster » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:35 am

Both of these sides of Rainbow Dash are pretty endearing to me. The annoying braggart side makes me think of people I've known who were like that and in most cases they were acting like that,focusing on their image to make up for personal insecurities and low self-esteem :twisted: I like to imagine that Fluttershy is empathetic enough to pick up on this and that's why she sticks with Dash through thick and thin.

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Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by mr man » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:04 am

I like both of these aspects of Dash, I like the fact that she can be a braggart and a bit of a jerk, she is awesome and shes gonna let you know. I quite liked her in MMDW. I dunno, I think these traits make her more interesting even if it makes her less likeable. :pinkieshrug:

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Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by dilettante » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:58 am

Well everyone's gotta have dem flaws. I still wanna see how Dash performs under extreme competitive pressure. Though I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I remember hearing a lot of people wanting to delve into the moment of vulnerability she had in Sonic Rainboom, probably not going too crazy into it, but showing that her braggadocio can't back up times when she fails.

Also I have no idea how others feel about this, but I am completely okay with writers not keeping continuity with characterization. That's not to say that I want the same character flaws to be rehashed over and over again. I almost feel I like the characters more when they were still struggling with their initial shortcomings. Yes, the character development in itself leads to some of the best episodes, but adding continuity to the mix can really lead to the show staff writing themselves into a corner. While I doubt it'd ever get this bad, there's still the niggling fear in my mind that one day the ponies will have all their flaws fixed and be infallible in their own special way. I have faith in the writers to have this never happen, but still, it gets me a little nervous.

e: VVVVV righto :v:
Last edited by dilettante on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ashenai

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Ashenai » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:09 am

dilettante wrote:Also I have no idea how others feel about this, but I am completely okay with writers not keeping continuity with characterization. That's not to say that I want the same character flaws to be rehashed over and over again. I almost feel I like the characters more when they were still struggling with their initial shortcomings. Yes, the character development in itself leads to some of the best episodes, but adding continuity to the mix can really lead to the show staff writing themselves into a corner. While I doubt it'd ever get this bad, there's still the niggling fear in my mind that one day the ponies will have all their flaws fixed and be infallible in their own special way. I have faith in the writers to have this never happen, but still, it gets me a little nervous.
Real people often keep fixing their own flaws for 80+ years, and I still haven't met a perfect one yet. I don't think this is something you need to worry about. Character development opens up a lot of new stories and avenues. With more complex characters, there are more stories to tell, not fewer.

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Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Headless Horse (?) » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:00 am

I expected there to have been some fallout for Fluttershy in particular after Best Night Ever; it felt like the whole season had been building up to some eruption (in retrospect), and I half thought that in S2 she would be either a lot more self-confident than in S1, or so mortified by what she'd done (both there and as Discorded Fluttershy) that she'd lock herself in her cottage and never come out again, and all season long her friends would be constantly trying to rehabilitate her.

I almost thought, from the bear-wrestling scene in Lesson Zero and her hiding in terror during Nightmare Night, that I was on to something. But no, turns out that allowing events like that to develop a character that much, and keep her developed, really would have kind of screwed the premise. :-P

Wylie

Re: The Importance and Perception of Characterization in MLP

Post by Wylie » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:24 am

I think my favorite Dash moment was from "Suited For Success," during Rarity's breakdown scene:

:gonkity: : I'm nothing but a laughingstock!
:excite: : You're not a laughingstock, Rarity--
:v: : She kind of is!
:-/: Shh!

Twilight's trying to make her friend feel better, but she's doing it wrong. She's never going to convince Rarity that people aren't laughing at her behind her back, and, well, Dash is right, but she's got no sense that that's not what Rarity needs to hear right now. And Dash is eventually part of the solution- she's the one who strands Opal in the tree to get Rarity to come out and see the dress they made for her.

(After watching this scene again, how did they have the time to work on Rarity's dress behind her back? It was in her wallowing room, which she only left when Dash put Opal in the tree... but that's for another thread, I guess.)

This is pretty much exactly the thing that Dash gets better at in Hurricane Fluttershy. She starts off with "Suck it up, Fluttershy!" and stops herself- maybe for the first time ever- to consider her audience. And that's the sort of character-building moment that we don't necessarily need to see reinforced over and over again- it's not that she's suddenly changed from :v: to :3: all of a sudden, it's that she gained that bit of self-awareness somewhere along the line, and now she can use it when she has to. Her mouth is always going to engage before her brain (and that's no small part of what makes her endearing), but at least we know they're both connected to the transmission now.

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