The quality of MLP: FiM fan fiction - Very poor.

[XX55XX]

That better be referring to a character locking some pony in a closet and putting on a crappy pony costume.

Yeah, that's my fic. Was rejected by EQD because it was too "fast-paced". Up on the usual places, though.

[Daionus The 23rd:3]

Fast-paced, eh? Well I hope that doesn't mean you paced it poorly.

[BattyBovine♪ i got a new way to walk ♪♪ walk walk ♪♪ i got a new way to walk ♪♪ walk walk ♪♪ i got a new way to walk ♪♪ and it shows how good i feel ♪]

Yeah, that's my fic. Was rejected by EQD because it was too "fast-paced". Up on the usual places, though.

Wait wait wait. That's a reason to reject fanfiction on EqD? Of all the reasons they could -- and probably should -- be using? I mean, maybe they had a point regarding your story; I haven't read it, after all. But coming from them, it just sounds so silly.

[Opposing FarceDon't you smile at my faceSpit on my backDo you kiss your mother with a mouth like that?]

I've always been under the impression that EqD's standards were actually pretty lax and mainly just came down to "fits the arbitrary length requirement and isn't horribly written/outright porn." That was pretty much my experience with both of the stories I sent in (one which was accepted and one which was rejected for length). That was a while ago, though, so maybe they're stricter now

[Concerned ReaderI didn't inhale]

Wait wait wait. That's a reason to reject fanfiction on EqD? Of all the reasons they could -- and probably should -- be using? I mean, maybe they had a point regarding your story; I haven't read it, after all. But coming from them, it just sounds so silly.

I've always been under the impression that EqD's standards were actually pretty lax and mainly just came down to "fits the arbitrary length requirement and isn't horribly written/outright porn." That was pretty much my experience with both of the stories I sent in (one which was accepted and one which was rejected for length). That was a while ago, though, so maybe they're stricter now

I still think that a minimum length requirement is a silly idea, because it encourages fluff writing and it encourages the judges to not actually read the story. They just check the word count and reject it, which is what I assume happened to Falling From High Places.

[Opposing FarceDon't you smile at my faceSpit on my backDo you kiss your mother with a mouth like that?]

I still think that a minimum length requirement is a silly idea, because it encourages fluff writing and it encourages the judges to not actually read the story. They just check the word count and reject it, which is what I assume happened to Falling From High Places.

Oh, I definitely agree, although the story I sent in that was too short definitely did get read (although admittedly it was only about 400 words under the limit), and I did get feedback on other parts of it.

[Concerned ReaderI didn't inhale]

Oh, I definitely agree, although the story I sent in that was too short definitely did get read (although admittedly it was only about 400 words under the limit), and I did get feedback on other parts of it.

Yeah, I got no feedback at all. Just boom auto-reject.

Yeah, that's my fic. Was rejected by EQD because it was too "fast-paced". Up on the usual places, though.

Well, pacing is very important. A Fast-Paced story might mean one where things happen suddenly with no lead in or transition between elements, the reader is confused as to what is actually happening, and there's no time for any of the characters to react to anything.

E.G.

George was walking down the street but then a robot burst up from the sewer in a shower of cement and manhole covers. He ran as fast as he could but then the robot caught him with a laser net and dragged him to another sewer hole which lead to the secret robot hideout, but then George Detonated his shirt explosive device and killed them all.

Again, having not read your story I can't say for sure, but that might be what they mean. I already mentioned the editing thread we have. If you want an honest look at your story, make a post in there and someone will probably work with you.

[The great MPinke Torte das Pony.---]

ED posted Cupcakes.

That's really all you need to know about their "standards".

[Daionus The 23rd:3]

Sad thing is, I heard that guy later tried to make it up by writing sweeter fan fiction, but his reputation as "the guy who made Cupcakes" made them go unnoticed.

On the other hand, my source for that piece of information is a highly questionable one.

[Concerned ReaderI didn't inhale]

Sad thing is, I heard that guy later tried to make it up by writing sweeter fan fiction

I read that as sweater fanfiction. I would unironically read fiction about sweaters.

[Opposing FarceDon't you smile at my faceSpit on my backDo you kiss your mother with a mouth like that?]

ED posted Cupcakes.

That's really all you need to know about their "standards".

To be fair that was more because of how infamous the story is and it was only posted to make people stop asking about it.

I mean, I'd still say it shouldn't have been put up at all, but it's not like it went through a normal submission process.

[The great MPinke Torte das Pony.---]

To be fair that was more because of how infamous the story is and it was only posted to make people stop asking about it.

Yup, that's the exact opposite of standards.

Also ED is the worst thing ever and Sethisto is a creepy fuck. I wish some other site could establish itself as the fandom's voice. Not gonna happen though, I guess.

[Concerned ReaderI didn't inhale]

Yup, that's the exact opposite of standards.

Also ED is the worst thing ever and Sethisto is a creepy fuck. I wish some other site could establish itself as the fandom's voice. Not gonna happen though, I guess.

While ponibooru is in existance, I don't think anything else can be the worst thing ever.

[XX55XX]

Wait wait wait. That's a reason to reject fanfiction on EqD? Of all the reasons they could -- and probably should -- be using? I mean, maybe they had a point regarding your story; I haven't read it, after all. But coming from them, it just sounds so silly.

Well, to quote Seth, this was what he said about my fic:

Sounds like you might need to slow it down some. the big complaint here is that things happen way too quickly without any buildup, detail, or draw to keep the reader engaged.

Might want to hit up the ponychan training ground with it. They tend to fix stuff like this up!

It might be true, that my pacing is a bit off. But, given how fast-paced Invader Zim is, I thought quick pacing wouldn't be the problem.

[Orange Fluffy Sheep]

There's the editing thread and the what you are working on thread. Keep this on applications of Sturgeon's Law, please.

[XX55XX]

Of course. Forgive the tangent. Back to talk about the poor state of MLP fan fiction!

About crossovers... Only franchise which has really worked (for me, at any rate) is Doctor Who. Has anyone else read a crossover into another media franchise which has worked out reasonably or logically well?

And a slight diatribe about romance fics (if I may indulge in the subject for a bit, even if that might scrape at breaking the rules here) - Most of them are poorly written, with little buildup in the relationship whatsoever, and cut to the sex all too quickly. When you are building non-canon romances, good writing is key, but unfortunately, most writers (including myself) are quite bad at it.

I'm just surprised by the number of romance fics out there, especially for a media franchise that doesn't feature any real romances at all. I can understand the interest in romance fics for BioWare games, Harry Potter, or any other media franchise where romances are frequently portrayed, but the sheer number of ship fics is astounding for a show that is all about rational, Platonic love between friends.

[Concerned ReaderI didn't inhale]

There's the editing thread and the what you are working on thread. Keep this on applications of Sturgeon's Law, please.

I've totally linked that thread like two or three times now.

Back on Sturgeon, The main problem with fanfic in general, and specifically pony fanfic, is that it has a very bad reputation. You have to dig through 95% pure distilled shit to find the 5% diamonds. So when you finally get your diamonds out and try to show them to people, nobody wants to listen to you because you're covered in shit.

About crossovers... Only franchise which has really worked (for me, at any rate) is Doctor Who. Has anyone else read a crossover into another media franchise which has worked out reasonably or logically well?

And a slight diatribe about romance fics (if I may indulge in the subject for a bit, even if that might scrape at breaking the rules here) - Most of them are poorly written, with little buildup in the relationship whatsoever, and cut to the sex all too quickly. When you are building non-canon romances, good writing is key, but unfortunately, most writers (including myself) are quite bad at it.

I'm just surprised by the number of romance fics out there, especially for a media franchise that doesn't feature any real romances at all. I can understand the interest in romance fics for BioWare games, Harry Potter, or any other media franchise where romances are frequently portrayed, but the shear number of ship fics is astounding for a show that is all about rational, Platonic love between friends.

I haven't read all that much fanfic, so I don't know about any other working crossovers.

On the idea of romance, what I don't understand is why does it have to be about sex? You can have a romantic story that is completely devoid of any sexual content. Romance is just another form of relationship between characters, just like friendship, rivalry, hatred, etc.

For how this applies to the MLP fandom, I think part of it is BECAUSE the show doesn't really give any relationships. Almost every relationship is entirely fanon creation. Lyra and Bonbon, Rainbow Dash and their OC, whatever.

The real problem I have with romance in fanfiction is that more often then not it completely breaks the characterization. No matter what your headcanon tells you, if it couldn't happen in the show it's going to feel out of place in a fanfic.

[Humorless ClodNo fun. Not ever.]

Back on Sturgeon, The main problem with fanfic in general, and specifically pony fanfic, is that it has a very bad reputation. You have to dig through 95% pure distilled shit to find the 5% diamonds. So when you finally get your diamonds out and try to show them to people, nobody wants to listen to you because you're covered in shit.

I don't think the reputation of fanfiction in general has to do with the actual quality of fanfiction. I think it is the demographics that write fanfiction that do: fanfic seems 'friendly' and easy to write... compared to say an original novel. Not that it is! It most certainly is not; writing anything at all takes experience, thought, critical feedback, time, and sheer practice to perfect. But many entry level writers start out with fanfiction. It's friendly. The worlds are already provided, many few fanfic writers think they don't have to explain them (it's implied that everybody reading already knows what you're talking about) and it seems to allows new writers to get right to the thick of things... except it doesn't really. Why fanfic is bad doesn't have to do with that people think it's going to be bad, but that many people writing it simply haven't mastered the learning curve.

From my 7 year experience in the fic community (multiple fandoms), I have noticed that many bad fics are one of only a few stories (or are the singular story!) written by a new writer... and that writer doesn't last a year before giving up and moving on. No time to inch up over the learning curve. If that writer manages to beat the turnover rate, they will gradually increase in quality over a period of years. Not weeks. Not months. Years. How long has this fandom been around?

The thing is that this fandom is still very new and it's attracting many TOTALLY NEW writers to it that haven't done this before. None of them have had the chance to master the learning curve. And then many writers who migrated from elsewhere are used to darker, grimmer settings and have to re-learn their writing skillset before they can create something that isn't a groaner.

[Daionus The 23rd:3]

On the idea of romance, what I don't understand is why does it have to be about sex? You can have a romantic story that is completely devoid of any sexual content. Romance is just another form of relationship between characters, just like friendship, rivalry, hatred, etc.

Proof of the lack of creativity among fanfic writers. Hell, I used to know a guy from some very pathetic RP that wrote creepy fanfics and failed to understand that love didn't require sex.

[Contra Calculus]

I'm just surprised by the number of romance fics out there, especially for a media franchise that doesn't feature any real romances at all.

Me too, but the one that makes the absolute least fucking sense to me is the Lyra and Bonbon phenomena. I mean, who the fuck sees two random people doing just standing by each other and thinks "HOLY SHIT, THESE PEOPLE ARE OBVIOUSLY IN LOVE"?

It's just kind of creepy, frankly.

[Opposing FarceDon't you smile at my faceSpit on my backDo you kiss your mother with a mouth like that?]

Me too, but the one that makes the absolute least fucking sense to me is the Lyra and Bonbon phenomena. I mean, who the fuck sees two random people doing just standing by each other and thinks "HOLY SHIT, THESE PEOPLE ARE OBVIOUSLY IN LOVE"?

It's just kind of creepy, frankly.

Eh, I don't really mind the Lyra and Bon-Bon thing so much, just because it seems like people do generally realize it's 100% fan invention (well, okay, some people have a hard time realizing that the fanon stuff is completely separate from the actual show, but they're in the minority). It's like, they're background characters without any real canon personality, so you can choose to make them pretty much whatever you want, and there's not really anything wrong with that. Of course, it's kind of weird and creepy that people decided two random background ponies are lovers, but I'm pretty sure most of them don't think they're an actual couple in the show itself or anything.

I guess what I'm saying is I'll take sticking two background characters together just because over deciding that two main characters are in love and arguing over how every single interaction they have is totally proof that they're going out.

[Humorless ClodNo fun. Not ever.]

Proof of the lack of creativity among fanfic writers. Hell, I used to know a guy from some very pathetic RP that wrote creepy fanfics and failed to understand that love didn't require sex.

Many fanfic writers use fanfic as a way to exorcise their social anxieties. And of course, having/not having sex is one of them. I wouldn't say lack of creativity... I'd say it's the difference between putting on an entertaining show for others, and just just boxing up one's own issues/self-gratification and hoping other people like it. That may seem harsh, but it's a common trend for both young and old new writers. It's part of that 'staying and practicing long enough to get over the learning curve' thing I was talking about. It takes a while to realize that the reason why people don't like your story is that you didn't write it for them, you wrote it for you. And once you move past that and start writing for others rather than just yourself, it's a HUGE milestone and the quality increases a whole giant leap.

But many people aren't there yet. It doesn't mean they aren't /can't be creative. It just means that they don't realize they can be creative for other people yet.

[BattyBovine♪ i got a new way to walk ♪♪ walk walk ♪♪ i got a new way to walk ♪♪ walk walk ♪♪ i got a new way to walk ♪♪ and it shows how good i feel ♪]

What bothers me most is not really the fact that people want romance in My Little Pony. Trust me, I've seen people obsess over worse things; shipping is pretty tame by comparison. What I don't like is that it seems to be the only option. Even the mostly innocent and otherwise perfectly acceptable fanfiction I happen upon has to at least acknowledge that shipping exists in some form, even if just to explain why it's not happening in that particular story. It almost feels like even the authors of otherwise good fanfiction feel like shipping is the norm. That's pretty sad. Considering that this show is supposed to represent positive female character traits, I find it a little insulting that people want to insinuate that the one thing truly missing in these ponies' lives is a romantic relationship. In a sense, they're reimplementing the very thing that helps to set Friendship Is Magic apart from its predecessors; the very thing I thought most fans hated about these kinds of "girly" cartoons in the first place.

the one that makes the absolute least fucking sense to me is the Lyra and Bonbon phenomena. I mean, who the fuck sees two random people doing just standing by each other and thinks "HOLY SHIT, THESE PEOPLE ARE OBVIOUSLY IN LOVE"?

I always preferred the interpretation that they were the pony analogues to Felix Unger and Oscar Madison. In a sense, I guess that ended up being Carrot Top and Derpy, but I still want more crazy roommate shenanigans from Lyra and Bonbon. I mean, come on guys, that's a really obvious joke to make. You really had to go the relationship route with that one?

[numsOic]

It takes a while to realize that the reason why people don't like your story is that you didn't write it for them, you wrote it for you. And once you move past that and start writing for others rather than just yourself, it's a HUGE milestone and the quality increases a whole giant leap.

I know what you're getting at, but that's probably a really bad way to put it. First and foremost, you must be satisfied with your art; anyone else liking it is just a plus. Of course, this doesn't mean "lower your standards so you'll like any old garbage you make"; it just means that making art should be for your own satisfaction, not others'. What you probably mean to say is "make art, but if you expect others to like it you have to make it in a way that is likable, and for that you must hone your craft".

[Humorless ClodNo fun. Not ever.]

I know what you're getting at, but that's probably a really bad way to put it. First and foremost, you must be satisfied with your art; anyone else liking it is just a plus. Of course, this doesn't mean "lower your standards so you'll like any old garbage you make"; it just means that making art should be for your own satisfaction, not others'. What you probably mean to say is "make art, but if you expect others to like it you have to make it in a way that is likable, and for that you must hone your craft".

Exactly that. It's like putting on a play. You share a story with other people, be concerned if they will enjoy it, have fun taking the reader through the story. Of course it should still be fun, and you shouldn't 'sell out' to your audience. But the idea that a person can basically go up on stage and recite a list of things THEY LIKE and then demand that other people give you positive feedback when it doesn't include or even consider the audience...

[kefkafloyd]

Let's stop talking about sex, thanks. I want to keep this thread open because it's a good discussion.

[Concerned ReaderI didn't inhale]

Well, I guess the point still stands that wriiting is about communicating with the readers. Ideas, feelings, emotions, etc. If there's no connection with the reader, then it can't be a good story.

[TailspinQueen of the skies]

Has anyone else read a crossover into another media franchise which has worked out reasonably or logically well?

Well, there was this Battletech crossover that seemed OK to me. I think it was called The Thessalonica Legacy. The author managed to combine the two universes and it had a interesting ancient aliens explanation to why there are human things in Equestria.

[Opposing FarceDon't you smile at my faceSpit on my backDo you kiss your mother with a mouth like that?]

Truth be told, I just don't like crossover fanfiction in general. Like, sometimes crossover stuff can be cool if it's done intelligently/tastefully (I'm okay with things like The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen) but something about stories where the concept is "[thing I like] but also [other thing I like]" just... I dunno, I don't like it. I think it's kind of dumb.

[Daionus The 23rd:3]

Crossover fanfiction is good in theory. A sort of "what would happen if these two groups met at a cross roads" or something like that. Most authors, however, don't do a good job at making it something beyond creepy nerd fantasies. One crossover fanfic I dislike is that pony portal thing, which is nothing but an excuse to make ponies go crazy.

[XX55XX]

Crossover fanfiction is good in theory. A sort of "what would happen if these two groups met at a cross roads" or something like that. Most authors, however, don't do a good job at making it something beyond creepy nerd fantasies. One crossover fanfic I dislike is that pony portal thing, which is nothing but an excuse to make ponies go crazy.

It's rarely ever done well... but man, when there is that one good crossover story, I go wild over it. Particularly when it combines two franchises that I could never ever see combined in such an awesome way. I read a really good Dragon Age/Mass Effect crossover fic once, and before I read that, I thought it could never be seriously done.

Problem is, that for crossover fics to make sense, both of the universes need a conduit in which both can meet the other. Also, both universes need to have a similar tone with one another to mesh. For example, Dr. Who and MLP work well because Dr. Who is always going to crazy places in alternate dimensions, and it wouldn't break the suspension of disbelief for the reader if he went to Equestria just once. However, on the converse, Halo/MLP crossovers don't work quite as well because Halo is overtly serious and MLP is mostly silly and child-like.

[TailspinQueen of the skies]

You know, I've noticed something. You'd think, this being a cartoon and all, people would try crossing it with other cartoons, like Phinaes and Ferb or Adventure Time, but I've yet seen anything along those lines. I mean, it makes far more sense than some of the stuff out there.

[XX55XX]

You know, I've noticed something. You'd think, this being a cartoon and all, people would try crossing it with other cartoons, like Phinaes and Ferb or Adventure Time, but I've yet seen anything along those lines. I mean, it makes far more sense than some of the stuff out there.

I think the demographic writing these fics is so old that they don't appreciate cartoons as much anymore (except MLP, maybe).

[RagnarThe fact that there is quite definitely nothing at all out there, yet it is visiting anyway, is of some distress to those who care about such things.]

Well I don't know, aren't a lot of us animation geeks?

(perhaps ironically, Adventure Time is way too dark to mesh with MLP, even though both cartoons share a basic idealism and zest for life)

[Concerned ReaderI didn't inhale]

Well I don't know, aren't a lot of us animation geeks?

(perhaps ironically, Adventure Time is way too dark to mesh with MLP, even though both cartoons share a basic idealism and zest for life)

Well, I could actually see Adventure Time and Ponies working well together, because the darkness of adventure time is all understated. It's inherent in the post apocalyptic world, but it's not the focus of the show. The important bit is the Zest For Life. Marshmallow Ponies could be a splinter of the Candy People, or any other number of mutants.

For me, I actually don't feel any draw to write Adventure Time fanfiction. Not because I don't like the show or world, It's one of my favorite shows ever, but because I feel that anything I could write for the setting would detract from the show. The creative effort put into the backstory of everything is amazing.

[Opposing FarceDon't you smile at my faceSpit on my backDo you kiss your mother with a mouth like that?]

Plus, Adventure Time is a very, very visual show, even moreso than FiM. The designs, animation, voice acting, sounds... there's this really great, creative, imaginative weirdness to all of it and everything works together in such a way that I just can't see it working in any other medium.

[RagnarThe fact that there is quite definitely nothing at all out there, yet it is visiting anyway, is of some distress to those who care about such things.]

Well, I could actually see Adventure Time and Ponies working well together, because the darkness of adventure time is all understated. It's inherent in the post apocalyptic world, but it's not the focus of the show. The important bit is the Zest For Life. Marshmallow Ponies could be a splinter of the Candy People, or any other number of mutants.

I'll admit I'm now thinking that making Equestria an isolated continent in the Land of Ooo has a certain draw, or maybe just making Finn and Jake find a lever that dispenses "Friendship Horses," and Finn and Jake decide that they want noble, friendly steeds. Yeah, these suck. All I'm saying is that... actually, that's a thought: I'm thinking half the draw of trying to make crossover fanfics is that every idea is inherently ridiculous, so there's the draw of challenge and experimentation. Every success is beyond expectation, and every failure isn't a big deal because, well, obviously the idea was dumb.

For me, I actually don't feel any draw to write Adventure Time fanfiction. Not because I don't like the show or world, because It's one of my favorite shows ever, but because I feel that anything I could write for the setting would detract from the show. The creative effort put into the backstory of everything is amazing.

Fortune favors the bold. Worst case scenario: your fic sucks, so it's a learning experience. That's worthwhile too. Anyway, who hasn't written something terrible? Other than me, I mean. My shit is amazing. No it isn't, but damned if I'm not well educated at this point.

Plus, Adventure Time is a very, very visual show, even moreso than FiM. The designs, animation, voice acting, sounds... there's this really great, creative, imaginative weirdness to all of it and everything works together in such a way that I just can't see it working in any other medium.

MLP fanfics have exactly this same problem for me, though. No fic can do Rarity's faces, or any of the the sound direction, or the bits of nonverbal emoting that go by too fast to be described except in the quickest and vaguest possible way. Adventure Time also has a distinctive approach to language and dialog, and I don't mean "math this" and so on.
Not that you aren't right anyway.

[Opposing FarceDon't you smile at my faceSpit on my backDo you kiss your mother with a mouth like that?]

MLP fanfics have exactly this same problem for me, though. No fic can do Rarity's faces, or any of the the sound direction, or the bits of nonverbal emoting that go by too fast to be described except in the quickest and vaguest possible way. Adventure Time also has a distinctive approach to language and dialog, and I don't mean "math this" and so on.
Not that you aren't right anyway.

That's definitely true, but personally at least I feel like the way FiM uses those things is more expressible in prose. After all, the heart of FiM is its character interactions and relationships, and those can always be utilized in fiction.

FiM and AT are both well-animated shows, but their style and the things that make their animation so good are very different. AT's animation is great because of how loose and fluid and fun it is, while FiM is more subdued and really excels in how its characters are incredibly expressive in both subtle and obvious ways. They both only work because they're animated, but the latter is more conducive to prose interpretation than the former.

[Daionus The 23rd:3]

Would a ridiculous form of description work? Wizard People Dear Reader had a very good job at making amusing descriptions. Granted, it's more of an alternate audio track to a movie than a book, but I think the general narrative could work.

"Rarity's face turned into one of shock akin to that of a tiny child who has discovered he is home alone, and will have to spend the next hour-or-so setting up traps to defend himself."

[Opposing FarceDon't you smile at my faceSpit on my backDo you kiss your mother with a mouth like that?]

Would a ridiculous form of description work? Wizard People Dear Reader had a very good job at making amusing descriptions. Granted, it's more of an alternate audio track to a movie than a book, but I think the general narrative could work.

"Rarity's face turned into one of shock akin to that of a tiny child who has discovered he is home alone, and will have to spend the next hour-or-so setting up traps to defend himself."

Personally I feel like that wouldn't really match either FiM or AT's style, since it's a very Pratchett-y sort of technique. I adore Discworld, but it's got a very different sense of humor from either show.