Perry Goes To Utah II: Thanksgiving Episode

[Mr. Big]

I tried Popeyes once in Los Angeles.

It was okay

[Perrydotto]

Alright, I've had enough time to ruminate in my brain things to write more detailed about this trip, so for anyone who cares I got some words and shit

[Perrydotto]

I have a truckload of varying feelings on my in-laws, and I guess to a degree that will never change but hoowee yeah

There is definitely some culture shock there. Way less than Fontra had to deal with when he moved to Germany, obviously, but it's there nevertheless and it's something that kinda caught me off-guard. Even with all my interest in political affairs and with listening to my US friends talking about their shit and all that, I still can't overstate enough how much some aspects of US culture clash with German culture, and how much my own life clashes with that of my in-laws, even just the immediate family. It was easily what I struggled with the most during the visit, to be honest - Jetlag, travel anxiety, dietary restrictions, yadda yadda, all that is a pain but not really an ongoing challenge. Heck, even Thanksgiving was ... actually not that difficult! There, I had a lot of time to prepare in advance and to muster up the energy to perform at that particular time, to be at my best. When I actually sorta had my guard down, when I was tired or trying to relax, that's when dealing with the family got actually difficult.

I really don't wanna be rude here, but ... shit yeah, these people are rich. I barely had time to really let that sink in when I visited the first time, but yeah geez. We're not talking, obscenely rich, but "fancy big house and rich neighborhood and a Mercedes sports car in the garage"-rich. And all of that wouldn't bug me a whole lot if those things didn't come with a big heaping dose of "we're gonna reaffirm in front of each other a whole lot how rich we are, just in casual conversation". I'm sure they don't think anything by it or mean any harm, but it just kept freaking happening and gosh it got to me quick. I'd never before in my life met someone who earnestly, unironically says "yeah I play the stock market, I made 500 bucks just the other week" in casual conversation but now I can say I did. I always thought that kinda shit was reserved for parody or the ultra-rich, but nope. It happened when my siblings in law were around, in particular. We'd hang out and they'd just randomly start discussing investments as if we were talking about our favorite bands. Just ... playing card games, shooting the shit, talking about the stock market. That sure is a thing I commonly hear from my peers in their mid-20s.

I have to mention that in Germany, this kind of open discussion of money and finances is generally frowned upon. Not saying nobody does it, but the average person in Germany would find it tacky or even rude if you just brought that sorta thing up with someone you barely know. I have family members in Germany of various income brackets and they all completely avoid the subject, some of them even go as far as refusing to gift money for Christmas because they think it's tacky. My siblings-in-law barely know me, and I literally only now met the sister's husband, but it was acceptable conversation with or without me from the getgo. Meanwhile, nobody even cared that I kept intensely quiet on the subject except for the polite bare minimum. I tried to make conversation with my SIL's husband about his boardgame hobbies, a thing I can actually relate to, only to get cut off quickly because other people at the table thought it was boring and wanted to get back to talking about sports, fancy cars and money. When my mother-in-law asked me in a 1-on-1 conversation how I was doing with money and career, I was truthful and said I'm gonna lose my entire income in January and have no idea when I'll get it back, and all she could think of in response was "Oh, that sounds tough" and changed the subject.

I've never been made to feel so personally alienated about a difference in status and class than I had before this visit, to be honest. The casual ongoing bragging in front of each other was a social practice I was not familiar with, and now that I've experienced it I would like for it to go fall into a ditch and never come out. Again, I'm certain they feel this is totally normal and they're likely not even aware it's offputting as hell to someone who's not a part of this kinda lifestyle. It just comes across as extremely shallow when I try to have actual bonding conversations with people and everything stays so shallow and unavaible, even when they talk among each other. I don't love all of my family members either but, shit, I dunno, I would not be able to deal with this level of insincerity from my immediate family. It was just ... super weird and exhausting.

I still feel like I don't know any of them from actual conversations we had, and they likely know even less about me. All I know about them is stuff I inferred and observed from how they acted when they actually DID let their guards down. I shouldn't have to watch my own family members like I'm a ranger observing wild animals, right? ... Right??

[Factory Factory]

That's not normal, or at least it shouldn't be. I grew up in and still live next to one of the richest towns in the country, and everyone has had the decency to have a hobby and conversation skills at a minimum, as well as the knowledge that even in Richtown, USA, there are some folks in the community who fall on bad times and struggle mightily.

Don't get me wrong, there are still money-related social problems, and plenty of conspicuous consumption, but I've never met anyone who was a dick about their cash like that.

[Perrydotto]

Having in-laws all the way over in a different part of the world, from a totally different culture, religion, class and country is just in general kinda wild. Often fascinating, sometimes fun, sometimes infuriating, but it definitely never gets boring.

I had proper bacon and waffles for breakfast more than once, when in Germany we usually just slap some cured meat on a slice of bread and call it a breakfast. I played Werewolves (basically a Mafia game in card form) with three generations of the family at Thanksgiving and had a giant pile of fun, especially once I got to be the narrator and everyone was legit impressed with my performing abilities. I had to navigate the inevitable at least moderately offensive relative at the dinner and explain how autism is a spectrum and nothing that makes people inherently incapable of handling themselves without making it too obvious that I'm autistic. I had to watch like a hawk whenever one or two particular family members were around because Fontra had warned me that they were extra pushy with trying to get him back into the faith (they do this kinda thing with really underhanded, passive-agressive hints that I wouldn't have noticed if Fontra hadn't taught me). I got to have an unlimited data SIM card because Fontra's dad used to work for AT&T and still hasn't taken Fontra off of his phone plan. I had to watch the same man drive while holding his phone blatantly to his ear and being in a heated phonecall, with all of us in the car, because it's supposedly not illegal to do that in Utah (Which is kinda sorta true and it's pretty dumb). I got to see people putting up their massive Christmas light displays like clockwork immediately after Thanksgiving. I found out Fontra's grandma is actually an intensely skilled oil painter, something not even Fontra knew because apparently nobody had asked where she had all those oil paintings in her house from. I got to bond with one of Fontra's trillion cousins over birds because gosh she's like 8 and she freaking loves birds so, so much, what an excellent kid. I had to answer "how is your English so good" at least a dozen times easily, which is always flattering but also a bit awkward to explain because I never have the magic hotshot answer people seem to be looking for. I went to the cinema twice in one week, which is clearly the most decadent thing of them all. I found out Fontra's brother plays competitive Smash 4 and thoroughly enjoyed him kicking my ass.

They're not at all bad people, just such ... extremely different people, and the fact that I find them both endearing and awful is probably a sign that they're really becoming my family.

[Perrydotto]

Seriously though, I'm getting my father-in-law one of those hands-free car devices for Christmas. Dude doesn't even have one, or he might have had one and just avoided using it, Fontra isn't sure which of those. He can't refuse a kind but clear hint from his German daughter-in-law, though, so I think I'll take that chance. (Fontra's dad is obsessed with his German heritage, it's almost like I'm cheating in the ways I can endear myself to him. Dude was so freaking crazy for the German chocolate advent calendar I brought, goddamn. Dude also had to show his Mercedes to me, almost looking like he thought it was a thing that a German person would see as a rite of passage)

[Perrydotto]

Protip: Germans are not generally impressed by a Mercedes. They are expensive cars here too, but still so commonplace that it takes more than a Mercedes' mere existence to impress us on average. But pssst, don't tell him I said that

[Mr. Big]

Yeah. I mean, money gets brought up in conversations occasionally (comparing salaries if we're talking about the same line of work, for example), but I never experienced it being talked about so casually like that out of the blue, even if it's between friends and families who make way more than I can dream of.

I don't know if it's a Utah thing or not, but...yeah, this is tacky, and I don't blame you for being uncomfortable about it.

[Gloomy Rube]

Yeah uh we don't do that, and I know no one who does that, Perry your in-laws are weird and I'd get culture shocked too

[Perrydotto]

Also I watched a frickton of movies during my trip, due to the nature of long distance airplane travel and the afforementioned double trip to the cinema.

Most important part: I did not get to see Coco. That's the thing I was actually the most curious about, but nope. Boo!

Anyway, here are my extremely important reviews:

Captain Underpants - Oh yes, I genuinely loved this one. I'm definitely not the target audience for the toilet humour, but the majority of it was done in a very lighthearted and casual way that wasn't impossible to enjoy for adults. In general, the focus was way more in the many ways the story championed creativity and it showed through the visuals, the direction, the everything. It's a super breezy, silly and anti-authoritan movie that really oozes the lesson of "not all authority is good, and being a creative mind is healthy", stuff that I think is super duper good for the kiddos. The animation was lovely and the comedic timing generally on point. Cute and fun movie, definitely recommend giving it a watch. I feel like it went under people's radars a little and it deserves more attention. Disclaimer: I had never read any of the books and Fontra had read some as a kid, and we both really liked the movie, so it seems to do its job as an adaptation.

Baywatch 2017 - Well I did not expect this one to be good. Not even close! I can't resist the paintube urge and gosh did I get that. It's not the most hateworthy movie, not by a long shot, but good lord is it a needlessly obnoxious, stupid mess of a film that only sorta redeems itself by being groanworthily, unintentionally funny. It's painfully obvious that the movie went through development hell and had like 4 different writers, because it fluctuates between really stupid R-rated pee pee poo poo genital humour, cheap as fuck looking action scenes and actually genuine Baywatch parody/hommage. A dude gets his dick stuck in a lawnchair. There is a man-in-drag joke straight from the early 90s. The women somehow get less strong characters than they did on the original Baywatch show. It's a dumb as fuck, way too long experience and I laughed a lot but never for the right reasons. Avoid, unless you just can't resist the weird allure of Baywatch or you wanna see something bad.

Thor Ragnarök - What an intriguing movie, honestly. I was told it had some different storytelling sensibilites than the usual decent-but-standard Marvel stuff, and I must say I was generally enjoying that. The amount of humour sometimes felt a bit too much, but generally it added a lot to the enjoyability and genuine heart of the film. Nobody felt like they were just entirely cookie cutter stock characters, and especially Thor's struggle throughout the movie was a thoroughly humbling experience for him, something that was really fun and intriguing to see. Also, it's another stealth Hulk movie and a quite good one at that, too. The comedic timing was generally great and I had a bunch of good laugh out loud moments. Some good action and heroic stuff in there as well, and a legit necessary lesson for Thor at the end, so yeah, good shit. More movies like this that are allowed to take some more risks and humble the characters, Marvel, please.

Justice League - Bleeeeeeeeeeeh. Yes, it's a functional movie, which makes it better than Batman VS Superman but that's basically the good I can say about it. The very few genuinely neat or funny moments they had were overshadowed by a lot of shallow trailer-grade dialogue, a jumbled mess of a story, some baffling plot developments that bothered even me as a forgiving superhero fan and just a lot of meh in general. I appreciated the attempts at having more heart, but it mostly fell flat. I appreciated the attempts at humour, but it usually felt super forced. Also, the plot with the three magic cubes was literally Lord of the Rings but more boring, and we didn't need those 5 ass shots of Wonder Woman. Aquaman is described as having issues with accepting his authority as leader of Atlantis and he resolves that conflict entirely off-screen. Cyborg is shown to hate himself and his new body and he resolves that conflict entirely off-screen. JK Simmons is a really good casting choice for Commissioner Gordon. I fell asleep during the climax.

Batman and Harley Quinn - AKA that time someone somehow let Bruce Timm do writing and direction on an animated Batman special and he decided to just turn all of his masturbation fanfics into a movie. Gosh was this one an embarassing watch. Look, Bruce, you can be a perv all you like and I don't give a shit how much you wanna bone Harley Quinn, have fun pal, do whatever. However, the plot of "lets take a few fetish scenes with Harley Quinn, make it obvious they're the fetish scenes because they have all the animation budget used on them and then string them together loosely into a story" is ... not a good plot! Also there's that dumb ass cleavage moment where Harley leans over and her ass is like boob cleavage. Also Harley abducts Nightwing, ties him up, and coerces him into sex which is played off as okay and not rape because he wants it too at the last second. Dumb and gross, to say the least. Uh, not one I will stream any time soon, or ever. Very dumb.

Boss Baby - Surprisingly ... not as bad as you'd think?? Like, I mean it. It's actually just agressively mediocre, which is its biggest crime. The first half hour or so is a genuinely quite entertaining romp about a clearly unreliable narrator child and his inceasingly absurd ways to deal with the arrival of a baby in the house. It's well directed, legit funny, and a lovely way to tackle the subject of "kids need to learn how to accept a new baby". However ... right after that first half hour, the movie drops all of that in favor of an extremely bogstandard Dreamworks family movie plot, complete with the usual execution, pop songs, you name it. It's very solid, and definitely not as obnoxious as some other Dreamworks fare of this type, but it's still super safe and standard. You get the evil villain, you get the unlikely friends, you get the lesson at the end. Only on its very last minutes does the movie go back to its absurd unreliable narrator situation, and that makes me legit mad because it could have owned its dumb as hell premise and just gone all in with the silliness. I really do think that would have made it great. Also, Alec Baldwin is a legit inspired casting choice for a selfimportant baby who is also a business tycoon.

[Perrydotto]

Yeah uh we don't do that, and I know no one who does that, Perry your in-laws are weird and I'd get culture shocked too

Again, it's something they did very casually, in a way that made me think they literally don't notice it. Also it's not like it happened 24/7 but it was sorta of common recurrence during conversations and hangouts. Especially my SIL's husband seemed super eager to bring it up. Probably was really trying to impress the dad, who is very much a typical business type, but still.

I can obviously only speak from my experiences but the conversation of money seems to be generally more open to Americans than to Germans - My mom told me how when she was a tour guide as a student, she'd occasionally get asked how much money she makes as like the second or third question, and it was asked by Americans every single time. I can appreciate the more casual approach Americans tend to have on social interaction (lord knows Germans can be quite stuffy and difficult to approach) but that casual behaviour seems to include money for some and it's just super strange because it's so much less common among Germans.

[Gloomy Rube]

Well really from my experience it's that we're more likely to compare our wages as the working class, and those in the upper class do it to brag, but it is pretty common for someone in the same pay grade as me to ask how much I get paid. Like, I do work in walmarts and walmart employees ask how much I get paid to do my vendor job. I'm not sure if they just want to move to a better job and are keeping their options open or if it's something else, but now that you mention it it really is not that uncommon a question here. Never thought about it before!!

[Perrydotto]

Well really from my experience it's that we're more likely to compare our wages as the working class, and those in the upper class do it to brag, but it is pretty common for someone in the same pay grade as me to ask how much I get paid. Like, I do work in walmarts and walmart employees ask how much I get paid to do my vendor job. I'm not sure if they just want to move to a better job and are keeping their options open or if it's something else, but now that you mention it it really is not that uncommon a question here. Never thought about it before!!

Yeah, that's the sorta thing I mean. People here talk shop like that too, but it tends to only come up among closer friends. It definitely seems to have a higher bar of entry before it's acceptable as a subject matter. If I was just getting to know someone and asked them for specific numbers on how much money they make, it would usually be seen as at least weird, if not rude.

[Mr. Big]

Well really from my experience it's that we're more likely to compare our wages as the working class, and those in the upper class do it to brag, but it is pretty common for someone in the same pay grade as me to ask how much I get paid. Like, I do work in walmarts and walmart employees ask how much I get paid to do my vendor job. I'm not sure if they just want to move to a better job and are keeping their options open or if it's something else, but now that you mention it it really is not that uncommon a question here. Never thought about it before!!

Yeah, same with me. When I'm with other professional cartoonists, we do talk about how much certain publishers pay. Not ALL the time, but if we work in the same category, and if we're, hypothetically, looking for different clients, these discussions happen.

[Gloomy Rube]

That's funny, it didn't bother me at all or seem weird. Must be a culture thing I haven't noticed before. Maybe it's related to the 'American Dream' and how there's this image of being able to rise from the working class to being rich if you just try hard enough, despite the reality making the gaps between classes still as hard to breach as in any other country.

[Perrydotto]

That's funny, it didn't bother me at all or seem weird. Must be a culture thing I haven't noticed before. Maybe it's related to the 'American Dream' and how there's this image of being able to rise from the working class to being rich if you just try hard enough, despite the reality making the gaps between classes still as hard to breach as in any other country.

Very likely. And again, Fontra's dad is literally a typical business/salesman type, so I can see that being an encouragement to the rest of the family to prioritize the wealth parading.

[Perrydotto]

When it comes to money, Germans tend to value stability and safety above all else. Germany is where you see advertisements for insurances of all kinds and specific types of safe, longterm bank investments. A popular, intensely German product is the Bausparvertrag (a thing so German it doesn't seem to have a very accurate English equivalent ... the closest would be a building savings contract?) where you and the bank make a deal about saving up money to build a house, and you get a bunch of potential advantages and tax breaks you can get with the help of the bank deal. These contracts usually go about 20 years, 8 years of which are simply saving up alone, so yeah. That's the sorta thing Germans get sold by banks Also, Germans have the silly luxury problem of having too many insurances, in many cases. We fucking love insurances, and we tend to have overlapping ones that we don't need because insurance companies make fat bank on those.

Barely anyone has a credit card here and people tend to hate paying with credit. In the US, it's considered desirable to have a good credit score from having used and responsibliy paid off credit - In Germany, it's considered desirable to use your credit as little as possible and ideally never use it.

[Gloomy Rube]

The Knights Templar were actually an insurance firm for crusaders, despite being billed these days as illuminati.

sorry I just wanted to share that random trivia tidbit

[Mr. Big]

Barely anyone has a credit card here and people tend to hate paying with credit. In the US, it's considered desirable to have a good credit score from having used and responsibliy paid off credit - In Germany, it's considered desirable to use your credit as little as possible and ideally never use it.

This makes me wonder, are checks common in Germany? I mean, even in the US not many people use paper checks anymore, but I'm wondering if it was ever a big thing there. In Japan, checks are usually limited for business transactions only; we often paid our bills in cash when we were living there, although credit cards are common there, too.

And yeah, debit and credit cards are so common in the 'States that I think cash is considered obsolete by certain people.

[Gloomy Rube]

Gotta use cash if you wanna participate in local festivals but that's about it. We had a fun one just a few months ago on the field of an elementary school, lots of hand-made crafts and stuff.

[Mr. Big]

Gotta use cash if you wanna participate in local festivals but that's about it. We had a fun one just a few months ago on the field of an elementary school, lots of hand-made crafts and stuff.

Yeah, those places tend to take cash only, but even I saw square readers at my local Farmer's Market.

[Fizzbuzz]

I'm pretty sure that checks are declining in usage around the world in general. After all, you can get the same thing with a debit card, except with near-instant transaction processing vs. merely hoping that a customer writing a check ain't writing a bad one.

A society with little usage of credit cards would be pretty nice, because c'mon, it's kinda messed up how we rely so much on debt that we greatly value someone's ability to pay it back

[Perrydotto]

This makes me wonder, are checks common in Germany? I mean, even in the US not many people use paper checks anymore, but I'm wondering if it was ever a big thing there. In Japan, checks are usually limited for business transactions only; we often paid our bills in cash when we were living there, although credit cards are common there, too.

And yeah, debit and credit cards are so common in the 'States that I think cash is considered obsolete by certain people.

I haven't used a check in my life and I remember my mom using them like a few handful of times tops when I was a kid. They were already on the way out when the Euro rolled around and I have not seen a check since.

[Perrydotto]

People here generally pay with cash or bank (debit) cards.

[Void Chicken]

Meanwhile my mom uses checks everywhere she can. The cashiers usually know how to run them through the machines. Usually.

[Fizzbuzz]

Meanwhile my mom uses checks everywhere she can. The cashiers usually know how to run them through the machines. Usually.

Important question, how old is she?

[Void Chicken]

Important question, how old is she?

Upper 60's or so.

[Fizzbuzz]

I ask since my 88-year-old grandfather would still carry his checkbook everywhere he went until I weaned him off of it early this year. There was one time last year when we were having his car worked on, and when it came time to pay he was going to write a check until we were told that we'd then have to wait at least 15 minutes for the check to clear. Or, we could put it on his credit card, and thus have it paid instantly!

[Gloomy Rube]

I ask since my 88-year-old grandfather would still carry his checkbook everywhere he went until I weaned him off of it early this year. There was one time last year when we were having his car worked on, and when it came time to pay he was going to write a check until we were told that we'd then have to wait at least 15 minutes for the check to clear. Or, we could put it on his credit card, and thus have it paid instantly!

Wow, checks clear FAST now. That's incredible, such a huge check clearing in just 15 minutes. When checks were in their prime, that sorta thing took days sometimes.

[West Filly]

When it comes to money, Germans tend to value stability and safety above all else. Germany is where you see advertisements for insurances of all kinds and specific types of safe, longterm bank investments. A popular, intensely German product is the Bausparvertrag (a thing so German it doesn't seem to have a very accurate English equivalent ... the closest would be a building savings contract?) where you and the bank make a deal about saving up money to build a house, and you get a bunch of potential advantages and tax breaks you can get with the help of the bank deal. These contracts usually go about 20 years, 8 years of which are simply saving up alone, so yeah. That's the sorta thing Germans get sold by banks Also, Germans have the silly luxury problem of having too many insurances, in many cases. We fucking love insurances, and we tend to have overlapping ones that we don't need because insurance companies make fat bank on those.

Barely anyone has a credit card here and people tend to hate paying with credit. In the US, it's considered desirable to have a good credit score from having used and responsibliy paid off credit - In Germany, it's considered desirable to use your credit as little as possible and ideally never use it.

Can you buy insurance for if one of your insurances refuses to pay out on a petty technicality?

[RIP Syndrome]

Wow that whole income thing seems super weird. I mean, here people would probably tell anyone asking questions about their income to fuck off. Hell, even shit like "wow, nice car, how much did it cost" will always get a response of "enough". Taxes, rent, utilities, food, everything is off limits. And no bragging about stock options or making money either unless you want everyone to hate you for being a dick


Also re: checks I may have seen a checkbook once or twice in my life, but the one time I saw it used was when we sold grandpa's car to some older guy, he handed us the whole sum as a check. It was kinda risky business because there's a real chance it might've not cleared (the banks weren't open until a couple of days from then because it was a Friday afternoon and New Years was coming up soon) actually but my uncle went with it anyway since it was obvious the guy had more than enough income to pull that off

[RIP Syndrome]

oh and money goes both ways. people do not like when somebody whines about not having money or being poor either. it's considered a sign of being bad with money because there's really no way to actually be poor in this socialist dystopia without blowing social security on something dumb

[West Filly]

People don't want to talk about money because we all know it's the problem but no one wants to deal with it.

[RIP Syndrome]

actually money is good, and making money is smart

[Mr. Big]

To make comparison to another culture, Japan does have a thing for desiring more wealth as well. We have a lot of superstitions relating to getting more money (Maneki-neko, for example), and one of the stereotypes Japan has about wives is that, whenever they get together, they would brag and gossip about their husbands' achievements, especially if they get a raise or a promotion (don't know if money specifically is talked about often, tho).

And congratulating someone (or giving condolences if loved ones die) is usually done by giving them money in a special envelope. Every New Years, many parents would give their children money as gifts. And it is something that was definitely drilled to me growing up.

Really, Japan and money are tied to the culture like butter on toast.

[Mir]

Money was always an off-limits subject as I was growing up. My own dad would always get weirdly defensive and angry if I asked him about his finances. Which... sort of made it really hard to learn about money?

Checks are primarily used to pay bills around these parts, since they're safer to send through the mail. Though that's been replaced more and more with paying bills online. Other than that, it's primarily the older generations.

[RIP Syndrome]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention, money is the universally accepted gift in Finland. Some consider it a little impersonal, but you pretty much can't go wrong with money. For any occasion apart from maybe weddings. My grandma gives everyone cash every year, usually in addition to clothes or something, and a couple of scratch tickets

[SlateSlabrock]

[PhoolCat]

rip most of those currencies €€€