The Round Stable

(?) · by **Pony Factory Factory** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:53 pm

Nah, it's clear that Shining Armor is just this super emotional guy. I'd say he cried when Bambi's mom got shot, but ponies actually probably know Bambi personally so it would be in poor taste.

(?) · by **Opposing Farce** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:53 pm

Grilox wrote:What was with the entire last page being about "Celestia's such a wimp" and stuff I'll jab you guys; all of you.

You know, Celestia being all-powerful, all-knowing, and nigh-invincible is fanon just as much as her being a troll is. Possibly moreso, even.

(?) · by **numsOic** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:00 pm

She's pretty powerful and she likes to mess with other ponies occasionally.

(?) · by **Lazy** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:00 pm

OpposingFarce wrote:You know, Celestia being all-powerful, all-knowing, and nigh-invincible is fanon just as much as her being a troll is. Possibly moreso, even.

This. She has never been shown to have great powers. She can raise the sun(I'd assume that's her special talent) and she's better at magic than normal, because she's Twi's mentor and a super special princess, but it's not like she can call down a solar pillar of flame on will or has nearly unlimited power.

(?) · by **Opposing Farce** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:05 pm

numsOic wrote:She's pretty powerful and she likes to mess with other ponies occasionally.

Well, yeah. They're both exaggerations, is the point I'm making.

(?) · by **Grilox** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:10 pm

Lazy wrote:This. She has never been shown to have great powers. She can raise the sun(I'd assume that's her special talent) and she's better at magic than normal.

Celestia NOT being all-powerful, all-knowing, and nigh-invincible is also just Fanon. :-/

Lazy wrote:but it's not like she can call down a solar pillar of flame on will or has nearly unlimited power.

Click here to view video.

(?) · by **Lazy** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:15 pm

Grilox wrote:Celestia NOT being all-powerful, all-knowing, and nigh-invincible is also just Fanon.

I... no? That's not really how burden of evidence works?
She hasn't displayed any of that and there's not really any reason to assume it. Just because she hasn't went and listed off all the things she can't do does not mean that she can do those things.

(?) · by **Grilox** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:20 pm

Lazy wrote:I... no? That's not really how burden of evidence works?
She hasn't displayed any of that and there's not really any reason to assume it. Just because she hasn't went and listed off all the things she can't do does not mean that she can do those things.

She's been alive for 1000+ years, sealed away discord, raises the sun every day, has been shown to be the most powerful pony so far, so you're kinda having to ignore a lot of stuff to make the claims you do.

(?) · by **Opposing Farce** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:22 pm

Grilox wrote:
She's been alive for 1000+ years, sealed away discord, raises the sun every day, has been shown to be the most powerful pony so far, so you're kinda having to ignore a lot of stuff to make the claims you do.

She's been shown to be very powerful, more powerful than any other pony, but that doesn't mean she's the most powerful entity around (and, in fact, she's quite explicitly not).

(?) · by **Grilox** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:24 pm

Oh yes, having the entirety of the power gained by feeding off the love of two deities, the entirety of Canterlot, and Shining Armor and only being able to KNOCK HER OUT means that Celestia isn't the most powerful, nope nope. :rainbert:

(?) · by **Lazy** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:25 pm

Grilox wrote:
She's been alive for 1000+ years, sealed away discord, raises the sun every day, has been shown to be the most powerful pony so far, so you're kinda having to ignore a lot of stuff to make the claims you do.

Alicorns are apparently immortal, she used the elements of harmony to seal Discord but is not the only one who can, and I always figured that she can raise the sun because it's her special talent, hence the cutie mark.
:pinkieshrug:

I don't understand what parts of the show you're getting "has been shown to be the most powerful pony so far" from. We almost never even see her do magic.

And it was never stated that Chrysalis got power from all of Canterlot. It's specifically "takes the place of somepony you love and feeds of your love for them." Not everyone's love for them. It was only SA's love.

(?) · by **Crow** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:30 pm

The only really powerful magic spell Celestia has done was to dispel Twilight Sparkle's "Want It, Need It" spell from the entire town.

(?) · by **Grilox** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:31 pm

Lazy wrote:Alicorns are apparently immortal,

And this is known because...?

she used the elements of harmony to seal Discord but is not the only one who can,

If you recall, it took the embodiments to seal him this time, but Celestia implies she did it by herself last time.

and I always figured that she can raise the sun because it's her special talent, hence the cutie mark.

I think you may be overestimating the power of cutie marks, bub. (Also this means you subscribe to the "Sunny Days can also raise the sun" school of thought.)

I don't understand what parts of the show you're getting "has been shown to be the most powerful pony so far" from. We almost never even see her do magic.

Thanks for adding to the proof. Benevolent powerful beings have to not use their power too much, for fear of harming their lessers.

And it was never stated that Chrysalis got power from all of Canterlot. It's specifically "takes the place of somepony you love and feeds of your love for them." Not everyone's love for them. It was only SA's love.

I doubt you know exactly how changelings work, so don't make assumptions. :-/

(?) · by **numsOic** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:35 pm

Grilox wrote:(Also this means you subscribe to the "Sunny Days can also raise the sun" school of thought.)

I subscribe to this. :allears:

(?) · by **Kronos** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:39 pm

Grilox wrote:
And this is known because...?

They've been around almost as long as Equestria, which is as good as immortal in this show.

If you recall, it took the embodiments to seal him this time, but Celestia implies she did it by herself last time.

No, she says in the show it was her and luna together.

I think you may be overestimating the power of cutie marks, bub. (Also this means you subscribe to the "Sunny Days can also raise the sun" school of thought.)

Most cutie marks can be interpeted in different ways (I.E. Sunny Says works with weather to bring sunny says). Celestia CONTROLS THE SUN. And the moon if need be. Cutie Marks aren't so much their special talent as it is their role in pony society.

Thanks for adding to the proof. Benevolent powerful beings have to not use their power too much, for fear of harming their lessers.

There's a yearly ceremony dedicated to the raising of the sun and Celestia has demonstrated the ability to teleport vast distances with ease (Lesson Zero, she teleports directly from the Tree-Library to the castle, a distance of at least two days travel by train). She also uses her telekinesis a lot, and just HOW does she send letters through spike?

I doubt you know exactly how changelings work, so don't make assumptions.

If all they had to do in order to feed off of love was simply be NEAR ponies, why the heck would Chrysalys even bother to impersonate the Princess and get married to Shining Armor?

(?) · by **Ragnar** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:41 pm

I think you guys are just made because it's Saturday and there's no new episode. :rainbert:

Because... power levels? Is that what we're going to discuss today?

(?) · by **Crow** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:42 pm

Grilox wrote:If you recall, it took the embodiments to seal him this time, but Celestia implies she did it by herself last time.

(?) · by **Wonkadoo** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:43 pm

Grilox wrote:If you recall, it took the embodiments to seal him this time, but Celestia implies she did it by herself last time.

She explicitly says the opposite: Celestia + Luna + The Elements of Harmony beat Discord.

(?) · by **Grilox** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:45 pm

Kronos wrote:
They've been around almost as long as Equestria, which is as good as immortal in this show.

Yes, Celestia and Luna have, Candance was obviously a teenager just a while ago, so...?

No, she says in the show it was her and luna together.

That was my point. It wasn't a huge group, it was the two deities. :-/

(?) · by **Wonkadoo** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:56 pm

The show has been slowly downgrading Celestia from Jesus levels to Gandalf levels all season. They nerfed her in EoH, again in HWE, and now another one in ACW. I fully expect them to reveal that her apparent immortality is a result of a life-sustaining spell or some other magibabble.

I think it's meant to reflect Twilight growing up.

(?) · by **Grilox** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:02 pm

Wonkadoo wrote:The show has been slowly downgrading Celestia from Jesus levels to Gandalf levels all season. They nerfed her in EoH, again in HWE, and now another one in ACW.

Celestia didn't do anything in EoH, HWE didn't involve Celestia so I don't see how it could be "nerfing" her. ACW was bad booking on the level of Hulk Hogan beating Roddy Piper, and I already explained it in a way that doesn't nerf her anyway.

(?) · by **Ransom** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:06 pm

I think part of the issue here is that MLP:FIM isn't really a superhero show, where "Who would win in a fight" is the fundamental driving force of what a character is. The show really isn't out to give us a full measure of Celestia, and I'm pretty sure Lauren stated she deliberately wanted her to remain fairly mysterious.

I think it was a bit of a tough spot for the writers. Celestia obviously wasn't going to just stand around while Chrysalis took over, but to have her defeat the villain doesn't work from a story telling perspective, the story is about Cadence and Shining Armor, and the mane 6. So you have to have a way for her to be neutralized. At least they came up with an excuse and she got to look tough for a moment. It turned into a :flutterdear:

moment on top of that.

The Princess has ruled for over a 1000 years (those 1000 years alone), apparently peacefully, in a world filled with an insane amount of scary, even apocalyptic stuff. It's kind of implied, if not outright stated, that she's incredibly powerful (all those monsters in Tartarus didn't start out there, did they?) but also wise and noble, which is actually much more important.

But yeah, I'm still hoping for a crowning moment of awesome (I quoted TV Tropes, don't hurt me) next season.

And then I suddenly had a very sad thought....what if Celestia and Luna are slowly losing their power and immortality because they are no longer connected to the elements? :fluttersmith:

(?) · by **Opposing Farce** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:08 pm

Grilox wrote:That was my point. It wasn't a huge group, it was the two deities.

The two of them and the Elements, which are basically an "I Win" button.

(?) · by **Crow** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:12 pm

From what's been shown, the Elements are pretty much like bringing a Machine Gun to a knife fight.

(?) · by **numsOic** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:15 pm

The only caveat is knowing how to trigger the elements. Spike couldn't do shit.

(?) · by **Grilox** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:22 pm

Ransom wrote:And then I suddenly had a very sad thought....what if Celestia and Luna are slowly losing their power and immortality because they are no longer connected to the elements?

I find that unlikely, since Celestia's bigger now than she was in Granny Smith's flashback, which implies the opposite of your worry happening. :pinkietoot:

(?) · by **Ransom** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:26 pm

Grilox wrote:
I find that unlikely, since Celestia's bigger now than she was in Granny Smith's flashback, which implies the opposite of your worry happening.

She was still connected to the elements then, it was only when the Mane 6 took over duties (releasing Discord, unintentionally) that this would have happened.

(I don't actually suspect them to go there, FTR)

(?) · by **Scuderia Ferrarity** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:46 pm

Ragnar34 wrote:I think you guys are just made because it's Saturday and there's no new episode.

Because... power levels? Is that what we're going to discuss today?

This is downright Dragon Ball Z. :iamapony:

Celestia may be powerful magically but her real strength lies in leadership. And part of leadership is knowing how to delegate.
So dresses, fireworks for the show, catering, a reception planner, musical entertainment, and some pony who loves organizing to tie it all together?
It's probably why the other ponies are so loyal to her - being entrusted by the Princess with a task is a great honor.

One detail I just noticed - shining armor tells twilight that Cadance was turnip twaddledy because she was the one organizing the wedding. But Evil-Cadance pushed this responsibility off to Celestia, who pushed it off to the Six. :gotcha:

(?) · by **itinerant nomad** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:31 pm

Wonkadoo wrote:The show has been slowly downgrading Celestia from Jesus levels to Gandalf levels all season. They nerfed her in EoH, again in HWE, and now another one in ACW. I fully expect them to reveal that her apparent immortality is a result of a life-sustaining spell or some other magibabble.

She eats the magical essence of phoenix eggs, or faithful students, or she feeds on love (which is why she wanted to officiate the wedding before her meal ticket got sniped).

Or...

Celestia and Luna are not noted for having done much in the show in the time period of their lives prior to discovering the elements. This includes defeating Discord and the banishment of Nightmare Moon.
One interpretation is that they were young or middle age at the point they were bonded to the elements. Luna's relative immaturity in her episode hints that she was probably young and a little unseasoned by the time she became Nightmare Moon and was put into some kind of magical prison or stasis for a thousand years.
Celestia is the one who had to remain remarkably well-preserved for a thousand years, but she had the elements and they needed someone to wield them in order to combat the immortal threats to Equestria.

Neither Luna nor Celestia have them now.
:gonkity:

(?) · by **Ransom** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:01 pm

itinerant nomad wrote:
She eats the magical essence of phoenix eggs, or faithful students, or she feeds on love (which is why she wanted to officiate the wedding before her meal ticket got sniped).

Or...

Celestia and Luna are not noted for having done much in the show in the time period of their lives prior to discovering the elements. This includes defeating Discord and the banishment of Nightmare Moon.
One interpretation is that they were young or middle age at the point they were bonded to the elements. Luna's relative immaturity in her episode hints that she was probably young and a little unseasoned by the time she became Nightmare Moon and was put into some kind of magical prison or stasis for a thousand years.
Celestia is the one who had to remain remarkably well-preserved for a thousand years, but she had the elements and they needed someone to wield them in order to combat the immortal threats to Equestria.

Neither Luna nor Celestia have them now.

Last episode:

Twilight and Friends ascend to alicorn status, while Celestia and Luna revert to 'normal ponies.' It's okay though! Luna finds it a lot easier to fit in and now Celestia can finally pursue her dream of being a baker :iamapony:

(?) · by **Grilox** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:08 pm

What if it turns out the bonding with the elements was the only thing keeping Celestia's power from increasing out of control? :gotcha:

(?) · by **Ransom** (?) » Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:21 pm

Grilox wrote:What if it turns out the bonding with the elements was the only thing keeping Celestia's power from increasing out of control?

"I can't control it!"

"Dark Phoenix Rises!" :gotcha:

Then everyone will complain how 'broken' a character she is.

(?) · by **Ashenai** (?) » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:26 am

Wonkadoo wrote:The show has been slowly downgrading Celestia from Jesus levels to Gandalf levels all season. They nerfed her in EoH, again in HWE, and now another one in ACW. I fully expect them to reveal that her apparent immortality is a result of a life-sustaining spell or some other magibabble.

I think it's meant to reflect Twilight growing up.

This is pretty insightful; coming-of-age stories invariably involve the mentor character losing his power/importance/life. Obviously Celestia is not going to die, but Twilight's role is slowly changing from "helper who is an integral part of Celestia's plan, but has no real agency of her own" (Season 1 pilot) to "capable of solving crises with minimal help from Celestia" (Season 2 pilot) to "solving crises independently, occasionally even surpassing Celestia in judgement and capability." (Canterlot Wedding)

I don't think Celestia has gotten any weaker: it's Twilight who has gotten stronger. In a way, we kind of see Celestia through her eyes throughout the show: she goes from incomprehensible, benevolent deity (Cutie Mark Chronicles) to powerful, infallible Momjesty (to borrow sun_tzu's word)... and in this last episode, she's finally lost her infallibility. She wasn't just defeated... she was wrong.

All of us have been through adolescence, and have seen this happen to our very own parents (or older siblings, idolized teachers/mentors, whatever.)

(?) · by **Mechanical Ape** (?) » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:56 am

Any bets that Celestia writes a friendship letter to Twilight sometime in S3? :gotcha:

Celestia's been compared to Gandalf. I can see that -- him or Galadriel, maybe. PC is untold millennia in age and is presumably extremely powerful, but just how powerful we don't know because she keeps it under wraps most of the time.

We can maybe catch a glimpse from that time that Luna cracked the ground with one frustrated hoof stomp, without even thinking about it or expending much effort. I remember watching that scene and wondering what it must be like for normal ponies to live among beings like that, and also just what the princess ponies were capable of if they really cut loose.

(?) · by **Headless Horse** (?) » Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:32 am

Ashenai wrote:This is pretty insightful; coming-of-age stories invariably involve the mentor character losing his power/importance/life. Obviously Celestia is not going to die, but Twilight's role is slowly changing from "helper who is an integral part of Celestia's plan, but has no real agency of her own" (Season 1 pilot) to "capable of solving crises with minimal help from Celestia" (Season 2 pilot) to "solving crises independently, occasionally even surpassing Celestia in judgement and capability." (Canterlot Wedding)

I don't think Celestia has gotten any weaker: it's Twilight who has gotten stronger. In a way, we kind of see Celestia through her eyes throughout the show: she goes from incomprehensible, benevolent deity (Cutie Mark Chronicles) to powerful, infallible Momjesty (to borrow sun_tzu's word)... and in this last episode, she's finally lost her infallibility. She wasn't just defeated... she was wrong.

I've been wanting to post all day about how neat it was to see Twilight in Badass Ground-Pawing Action Hero mode—i.e., the moment she busts open the crystal wall and reveals Cadance in there, she freaking pounces on the pony who as far as she knows just sent her through the floor in a ring of magic fire, all prepared to beat the fuck out of her with her own two hooves if need be—and I like that the conversation today has set the stage for it nicely. :iamapony:

(?) · by **Jupiter** (?) » Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:45 am

Ashenai wrote:it's Twilight who has gotten stronger.

I'm so sure the series finale is going to be all

"I was not just teaching a student and friend, Twilight Sparkle; I was training my replacement."

(?) · by **Ragnar** (?) » Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:46 am

Headless Horse wrote:I've been wanting to post all day about how neat it was to see Twilight in Badass Ground-Pawing Action Hero mode—i.e., the moment she busts open the crystal wall and reveals Cadance in there, she freaking pounces on the pony who as far as she knows just sent her through the floor in a ring of magic fire, all prepared to beat the fuck out of her with her own two hooves if need be—and I like that the conversation today has set the stage for it nicely.

The entire ep was badass and Twilight was Queen.

(?) · by **synthorange** (?) » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:11 am

Season 3 reveals that Celestia doesnt actually raise the sun, it's just the planet turning around it! :gotcha:

(?) · by **Opposing Farce** (?) » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:14 am

synthorange wrote:Season 3 reveals that Celestia doesnt actually raise the sun, it's just the planet turning around it!

Celestia is a heavy-handed stand-in for the Catholic Church.

(?) · by **Stuff** (?) » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:33 am

Can you believe it's been a week already?

:iamapony:

The Round Stable

S02E25 & 26: A Canterlot Wedding [SEASON FINALE]

Re: S02E25 & 26: A Canterlot Wedding [SEASON FINALE]

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