S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
- Mr. Big
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S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
The forum went down right before the two-parter aired, so we never talked about it here.
Soooo....discuss the Season 7 finale here and stuff
Soooo....discuss the Season 7 finale here and stuff
Last edited by Mr. Big on Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- PonyHag714
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
This was a very satisfying finale. It told a good story without being too over the top, and everypony had a role to play.
I found Starswirl a little arrogant at first, but he came around at the end. Hoping to see more of him and Stygian in Season 8.
Mr. the Bearded.
Starlight was very good. I felt for her when she talked about how Starswirl might not have given her the chance the Mane 6 gave her. She was a big part of the resolution. I also felt bad for her in Part 1 when Twilight mentioned that Starswirl would have been able to stop her plans.
Shadow Pony was a great villain.
A+ Pony, and a nice topper to a terrific season. And the best thing of all...there's more to come.
I found Starswirl a little arrogant at first, but he came around at the end. Hoping to see more of him and Stygian in Season 8.
Mr. the Bearded.
Starlight was very good. I felt for her when she talked about how Starswirl might not have given her the chance the Mane 6 gave her. She was a big part of the resolution. I also felt bad for her in Part 1 when Twilight mentioned that Starswirl would have been able to stop her plans.
Shadow Pony was a great villain.
A+ Pony, and a nice topper to a terrific season. And the best thing of all...there's more to come.
("Don't try to reform me, Hag, because I'm made of cold stone.")
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
The Pony of Shadows looked so cool and soft and smooth and I wanna hug him.
There was a link here, it's dead now and I'm sad.
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
It was a pretty solid ending. And now we have ELEMENTS OF HARMONY THE PREQUEL GROUP!
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
Overall this was probably the strongest 2-parter they've done in years. Capitalized on finally giving us Star Swirl after years of merely mentioning him and the incorporation of the other legend ponies was a nice touch - can't wait to see how they're utilized down the road now that they're back from limbo.
While they became Pinkie the Earth Pony and Fluttershy the Pegasus, their legendary counterparts are the only two that are switched - Somambula is to Pinkie but with wings, while Mage Meadowbrook is a normal Earthie. All the other Mane 6 - Legend pairs are the same sub-species of pony.
Better - recall that originally, the set of six friends Faust wanted had Surprise the Pegasus and Posey the Earth Pony.Captain Rufus wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:44 pmIt was a pretty solid ending. And now we have ELEMENTS OF HARMONY THE PREQUEL GROUP!
While they became Pinkie the Earth Pony and Fluttershy the Pegasus, their legendary counterparts are the only two that are switched - Somambula is to Pinkie but with wings, while Mage Meadowbrook is a normal Earthie. All the other Mane 6 - Legend pairs are the same sub-species of pony.
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
The finale was great! I even enjoyed the finale more than the movie.
Also we finally get Somnambula's voice!
I hope there will be some more episodes with the Pillars in the future.
I would highly enjoy a Somnambula and Pinkie Pie team-up.
Also we finally get Somnambula's voice!
I hope there will be some more episodes with the Pillars in the future.
I would highly enjoy a Somnambula and Pinkie Pie team-up.
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
It was pretty good, OP.
I found the season as a whole to be really strong.
I found the season as a whole to be really strong.
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
I really need to watch this again since I spent so much of that day helping pull TRS back together.
One thing I did find amusing was how some folks on Discord pointed out that Stygian looked similar to my OC, especially in terms of coat color. Of course, I'm not a unicorn, am a little greener, am not as much of a dweeb, and I'm definitely not evil.
One thing I did find amusing was how some folks on Discord pointed out that Stygian looked similar to my OC, especially in terms of coat color. Of course, I'm not a unicorn, am a little greener, am not as much of a dweeb, and I'm definitely not evil.
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
While it was great to finally see Starswirl and have him be a curmudgeon to Twilight, I didn't care for much of the rest. The rest of the Legend Ponies are cookie cutter bland, barely enough to even be called characters.
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
Good lesson, good animation, good pacing. Pretty funny, too. I'm glad Josh Haber is back at the writing table.
If there's one issue, it's this. And not so much because they didn't elaborate on them enough, but because they're another set of superheroes. I think this season has moved in the right direction setting Starlight and friends up as the new B team, the underdogs who haven't really learned all their lessons yet. That's good! I think a lot of the fan criticism of the show stems from episodes not focusing directly on the ponies who are struggling with personal problems. I'm not sure there's much room to do those kinds of stories with The Original Ghostbusters, except for Stygian.
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
Reposting from ResetEra:
With the addition of Sunburst, half the "present day" main pony cast of this episode was unicorns. We really need a broken earth pony for Twilight to turn good.
The first episode was pretty rushed. The show was throwing a ton of things toward me at once, and felt the need to include so many characters, and much of it turned out to be largely irrelevant to the story. Most notably, the sequence of everyone gathering the artifacts, when those characters and the qualities they displayed didn't play a part in the final episode other than being harmony generators.
That said, I did enjoy the different sequences, besides Applejack's, which really had to force the honesty part. Nice to see the not!murderer filly from Gabby's introduction episode, though. Also, am I wrong, or is this the first actual confirmation that pony Applejack is notably stronger than even other athletic earth ponies? In contrast, we got a lot more scenes of EQG Applejack being strong. Rainbow Dash's was also kind of weird; I was expecting her to have to save Spike at the cost of winning the contest, but I guess we're really meant to be reaffirmed that she isn't the Element of Honesty. Also, she was able to wreck Garble pretty easily, so now the ending of "Dragon Quest" with all of them running away from him makes even less sense. I liked Rarity and Fluttershy's segments the most, since they best demonstrated their elements. Pinkie's was just there, and come to think of it, had nothing to do with her Element either.
Getting Starlight involved by having her be able to read bad handwriting was pretty odd. The moment where she says that she tore open a hole between dimensions, only for Twilight to correct her that it was a hole in time, was also weird.
Ponehenge was a pretty neat setting, and holy cow that pun.
It was pretty weird that Twilight didn't even consider that the Pony of Shadows would come with the other Pillars. Maybe they should have stated that they themselves were the seal, so with them gone from Limbo, he was able to break out.
The second episode was better, I felt, since it focused on Twilight, Starlight, and Starswirl. This did mean the other characters were just there for exposition, though.
From the comics, I was expecting Somnambula to have a valley girl voice of sorts, so her actual voice was pretty unexpected.
I was surprised to see an actual explanation for the Tree of Harmony. This, and Starswirl being surprised at Celestia and Luna's appearance, throws the timeline waaaaaay out of wack with what we assumed before from supplemental material. Tirek and the Sirens were defeated before the Tree of Harmony was planted, and there was enough time for it and the princesses to grow before Discord appeared. I'm pretty sure Journal of the Two Sisters had a part where the sisters and Starswirl find the Tree of Harmony with the symbols on its trunk, so that's definitely out of continuity now.
Well, Rainbow Power is dead and buried, now that they feel free to take the Elements of Harmony from the Tree. They brought up that the Tree won't survive with the Elements in Limbo, but I guess they no longer need to be in the Tree to protect it from Plunder Vines?
I liked the story with Starswirl. This matches up to what we heard about him not understanding friendship, as mentioned in "Magical Mystery Cure", which I had feared they were wearing away at with him befriending Scorpan in the backstory of "Twilight's Kingdom" and him forming a superhero team. Twilight following his lead even as Starlight pointed out the Map only sent them on Friendship Missions, with this causing her to doubt their actions, culminating in her holding off on banishing the Pony of Shadows, was handled well.
They went into surprisingly little detail about what happened to Stygian and what exactly was the darkness he found, which is apparently strong enough that the Elements of Harmony alone can't stop it. I wonder if they'll ever follow up on this.
So, Hollow Shades is wrecked. And what happened to everyone living there? No one's concerned about that?
Overall, it was an interesting story, but they really needed to cut down on it. Notably, they probably could have made it just Starswirl instead of a whole team of legendary figures.
There's a lot that the show can follow up on in the future. Combined with the movie, I wonder if there's room next season to do anything else, haha.
Also, what was the deal with the Shadow Lock arc of the comics, which was specifically meant to tie into this? Shadow Lock learning about the Pony of Shadows made it start popping up in other books he was reading, even ones that definitely didn't have it before. He started erasing historical information out of fear learning about it could lead to it being unleashed, which, well, is what happened with Twilight, but his actions made it seem like some inevitable outcome, when that didn't seem to be the case. Well, I suppose information getting out that there was a way to see Starswirl again would lead to a lot of eyes on this. Still, no explanation for that first thing. Plus, Shadow Lock was a descendant of the Pony of Shadows, but Stygian looked pretty young and lonely, so I'm not sure how that happened.
With the addition of Sunburst, half the "present day" main pony cast of this episode was unicorns. We really need a broken earth pony for Twilight to turn good.
The first episode was pretty rushed. The show was throwing a ton of things toward me at once, and felt the need to include so many characters, and much of it turned out to be largely irrelevant to the story. Most notably, the sequence of everyone gathering the artifacts, when those characters and the qualities they displayed didn't play a part in the final episode other than being harmony generators.
That said, I did enjoy the different sequences, besides Applejack's, which really had to force the honesty part. Nice to see the not!murderer filly from Gabby's introduction episode, though. Also, am I wrong, or is this the first actual confirmation that pony Applejack is notably stronger than even other athletic earth ponies? In contrast, we got a lot more scenes of EQG Applejack being strong. Rainbow Dash's was also kind of weird; I was expecting her to have to save Spike at the cost of winning the contest, but I guess we're really meant to be reaffirmed that she isn't the Element of Honesty. Also, she was able to wreck Garble pretty easily, so now the ending of "Dragon Quest" with all of them running away from him makes even less sense. I liked Rarity and Fluttershy's segments the most, since they best demonstrated their elements. Pinkie's was just there, and come to think of it, had nothing to do with her Element either.
Getting Starlight involved by having her be able to read bad handwriting was pretty odd. The moment where she says that she tore open a hole between dimensions, only for Twilight to correct her that it was a hole in time, was also weird.
Ponehenge was a pretty neat setting, and holy cow that pun.
It was pretty weird that Twilight didn't even consider that the Pony of Shadows would come with the other Pillars. Maybe they should have stated that they themselves were the seal, so with them gone from Limbo, he was able to break out.
The second episode was better, I felt, since it focused on Twilight, Starlight, and Starswirl. This did mean the other characters were just there for exposition, though.
From the comics, I was expecting Somnambula to have a valley girl voice of sorts, so her actual voice was pretty unexpected.
I was surprised to see an actual explanation for the Tree of Harmony. This, and Starswirl being surprised at Celestia and Luna's appearance, throws the timeline waaaaaay out of wack with what we assumed before from supplemental material. Tirek and the Sirens were defeated before the Tree of Harmony was planted, and there was enough time for it and the princesses to grow before Discord appeared. I'm pretty sure Journal of the Two Sisters had a part where the sisters and Starswirl find the Tree of Harmony with the symbols on its trunk, so that's definitely out of continuity now.
Well, Rainbow Power is dead and buried, now that they feel free to take the Elements of Harmony from the Tree. They brought up that the Tree won't survive with the Elements in Limbo, but I guess they no longer need to be in the Tree to protect it from Plunder Vines?
I liked the story with Starswirl. This matches up to what we heard about him not understanding friendship, as mentioned in "Magical Mystery Cure", which I had feared they were wearing away at with him befriending Scorpan in the backstory of "Twilight's Kingdom" and him forming a superhero team. Twilight following his lead even as Starlight pointed out the Map only sent them on Friendship Missions, with this causing her to doubt their actions, culminating in her holding off on banishing the Pony of Shadows, was handled well.
They went into surprisingly little detail about what happened to Stygian and what exactly was the darkness he found, which is apparently strong enough that the Elements of Harmony alone can't stop it. I wonder if they'll ever follow up on this.
So, Hollow Shades is wrecked. And what happened to everyone living there? No one's concerned about that?
Overall, it was an interesting story, but they really needed to cut down on it. Notably, they probably could have made it just Starswirl instead of a whole team of legendary figures.
There's a lot that the show can follow up on in the future. Combined with the movie, I wonder if there's room next season to do anything else, haha.
Also, what was the deal with the Shadow Lock arc of the comics, which was specifically meant to tie into this? Shadow Lock learning about the Pony of Shadows made it start popping up in other books he was reading, even ones that definitely didn't have it before. He started erasing historical information out of fear learning about it could lead to it being unleashed, which, well, is what happened with Twilight, but his actions made it seem like some inevitable outcome, when that didn't seem to be the case. Well, I suppose information getting out that there was a way to see Starswirl again would lead to a lot of eyes on this. Still, no explanation for that first thing. Plus, Shadow Lock was a descendant of the Pony of Shadows, but Stygian looked pretty young and lonely, so I'm not sure how that happened.
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
I think Tirek kept it in his little bag.SigmasonicX wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:37 amThey went into surprisingly little detail about what happened to Stygian and what exactly was the darkness he found, which is apparently strong enough that the Elements of Harmony alone can't stop it. I wonder if they'll ever follow up on this.
- Fizzbuzz
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
I kind of figured it was the same darkness that found Luna, fed upon her sadness and jealousy, and turned her into Nightmare Moon. Even then, the Elements of Harmony alone couldn't entirely stop Nightmare Moon; they could only send her away, at least as wielded by Celestia.
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
Best season finale, like, ever
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
That was a very insightful comment. It gave me a lot of things to consider.
I didn't realize it until afterwards, but the season was actually building up the Pillars for the finally. I guess what threw me for a curve ball was that one episode where they told three mini stories instead of having an episode devoted to each of their counter parts like previous seasons had done. Good play, ponies, you caught me by surprise with that one.
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
I should probably watch this episode at some point
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
You're not missing much, in my opinion
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Re: S7E25+26: Shadow Play, Parts 1 & 2
I'd have to put myself in the group of people who were somewhat indifferent to the finale. I can say that I enjoyed it more than the finales for Seasons 5 and 6 (especially 5), but as a whole, "Shadow Play" still left me kind of cold.
For whatever reasons, most Josh Haber stories haven't really clicked with me (excluding of "Bloom & Gloom" and a few others, including co-written episodes like "The Gift of the Maud Pie" and "Stranger Than Fan Fiction"), so it could be that I just don't enjoy the way Haber writes his episodes. I personally think there are genuine issues with "Shadow Play" that prevent me from truly liking it, but given how much positive stuff there still is, and given my general distaste for other Haber stories, I certainly understand why other people are enjoying "Shadow Play".
With all of that aside, I have to say that my two biggest problems with the episode, which are Twilight's character arc and the villain, all stem from the same large issue, and that issue is that this episode just has TOO MUCH in it. This episode had to quickly re-establish the characters (such as the Pillars), bring in the Elements of Harmony, introduce (what is basically) a new villain, introduce the various artifacts, include all of the character conflicts, cram in tons of lore, and cram in some jokes to stay entertaining; it's just too much to fit into two episodes, honestly. If there was less going on here, then maybe the episode could have given the villain and Twilight's arc the time it needed.
The villain didn't make much sense, even after the episode tried developing him. I'm not sure why he leaped from "wanting revenge on the Pillars" to "wanting to engulf all of Equestria", and the episode didn't take any time to show if any of this was actually the result of the "shadow" corrupting him. It could have been interesting to see how the shadow transformed Stygian, or at least specified how much of the villain was Stygian and how much was the shadow. Additionally, they really rushed the explanation of how Stygian came across the darkness to begin with.
As for Twilight's arc, it simply takes too many cuts and doesn't give things enough time. Twilight's motivation for "wanting to impress Starswirl" is barely explored, and the way Twilight sort of just ignored Starlight's logic against Starswirl wasn't justified. When Starswirl said the line about villains "always being villains", Twilight should have (and would have in any other episode) called him out, or, at least, they should've better justified why she wasn't calling him out. While the ending of the episode is a little sweet (though I REALLY wish the "Swirlstar" line wasn't in the episode; it isn't funny and just interrupts a potentially great, emotional scene), I don't feel it is earned, nor do I think the "emotion" was explored enough.
Ideally, a conversation between Twilight and Starswirl alone would have been the perfect solution, as it would've allowed the two characters to actually talk about their emotions (or, at least, hint at them and connect). It would've been an opportunity for Starswirl to show a more caring side of himself, and, if Twilight understood where Starswirl was coming from in a 1-on-1 conversation, that could help in justifying why Twilight continues to stick by Starswirl's side up until she comes to her senses at the end of the episode.
Yes, the good stuff is good; the lore was fascinating, the story never felt slow despite my faults with it, and ultimately, I do think Starswirl is an interesting figure (though I think the scene I described above would've gone a long way). It just didn't succeed for me overall. It didn't fail or flop, but instead sort of just hung around in the "meh" area; hence why I feel fairly indifferent right now. Thus, "Shadow Play" is fine, but it could have been so much more.
For whatever reasons, most Josh Haber stories haven't really clicked with me (excluding of "Bloom & Gloom" and a few others, including co-written episodes like "The Gift of the Maud Pie" and "Stranger Than Fan Fiction"), so it could be that I just don't enjoy the way Haber writes his episodes. I personally think there are genuine issues with "Shadow Play" that prevent me from truly liking it, but given how much positive stuff there still is, and given my general distaste for other Haber stories, I certainly understand why other people are enjoying "Shadow Play".
With all of that aside, I have to say that my two biggest problems with the episode, which are Twilight's character arc and the villain, all stem from the same large issue, and that issue is that this episode just has TOO MUCH in it. This episode had to quickly re-establish the characters (such as the Pillars), bring in the Elements of Harmony, introduce (what is basically) a new villain, introduce the various artifacts, include all of the character conflicts, cram in tons of lore, and cram in some jokes to stay entertaining; it's just too much to fit into two episodes, honestly. If there was less going on here, then maybe the episode could have given the villain and Twilight's arc the time it needed.
The villain didn't make much sense, even after the episode tried developing him. I'm not sure why he leaped from "wanting revenge on the Pillars" to "wanting to engulf all of Equestria", and the episode didn't take any time to show if any of this was actually the result of the "shadow" corrupting him. It could have been interesting to see how the shadow transformed Stygian, or at least specified how much of the villain was Stygian and how much was the shadow. Additionally, they really rushed the explanation of how Stygian came across the darkness to begin with.
As for Twilight's arc, it simply takes too many cuts and doesn't give things enough time. Twilight's motivation for "wanting to impress Starswirl" is barely explored, and the way Twilight sort of just ignored Starlight's logic against Starswirl wasn't justified. When Starswirl said the line about villains "always being villains", Twilight should have (and would have in any other episode) called him out, or, at least, they should've better justified why she wasn't calling him out. While the ending of the episode is a little sweet (though I REALLY wish the "Swirlstar" line wasn't in the episode; it isn't funny and just interrupts a potentially great, emotional scene), I don't feel it is earned, nor do I think the "emotion" was explored enough.
Ideally, a conversation between Twilight and Starswirl alone would have been the perfect solution, as it would've allowed the two characters to actually talk about their emotions (or, at least, hint at them and connect). It would've been an opportunity for Starswirl to show a more caring side of himself, and, if Twilight understood where Starswirl was coming from in a 1-on-1 conversation, that could help in justifying why Twilight continues to stick by Starswirl's side up until she comes to her senses at the end of the episode.
Yes, the good stuff is good; the lore was fascinating, the story never felt slow despite my faults with it, and ultimately, I do think Starswirl is an interesting figure (though I think the scene I described above would've gone a long way). It just didn't succeed for me overall. It didn't fail or flop, but instead sort of just hung around in the "meh" area; hence why I feel fairly indifferent right now. Thus, "Shadow Play" is fine, but it could have been so much more.
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