Wired article on 80s vs modern cartoons

here a forum about pony (Friendship is Magic Discussion)

Moderators: Blarghalt, LiamA, BartonFink

Wired article on 80s vs modern cartoons

Post by Kraps (?) » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:11 pm

It's mostly about how the trifecta of MLP/G.I. Joe/Transformers (and others) were of bad enough quality that the shows were just the framework for kids to make their own stories with the toys, and this may be the one drawback of today's admittedly excellent high-quality reboots.
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/06/pl_column_toons/
<Pineyapple>when you've fucked up so bad that Tara Strong is calling you on your shit
<Pineyapple>that's pretty bad

Team GSD

Image
Kraps
User avatar
Don't be afraid.
Applejack Aces
Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Gender: Male

Post by Wayoshi (?) » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:46 pm

FiM engages kids with its deep lessons. Much better than explicitly marketing the toys. :allears:
Image Image Image :milkshake:
Wayoshi
User avatar
She's the best around, nothing can keep a Fluttershy down.
Stare Masters
Joined: Oct 26, 2011
Gender: Male
  • Website

Post by SlateSlabrock (?) » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:04 pm

Agreed. While we should encourage creativity in kids, I don't think there's any intrinsic value in making them watch poorly-written cartoons to inspire them. Forcing children to turn off the TV and the GameBoy and go outside will do more for their creative development than any show.
SlateSlabrock
User avatar
Joined: Feb 14, 2011

Post by Bag of Magic Food (?) » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:21 pm

I thought the point would have been that making the show too good makes viewers so attached to it that they won't accept any toys that aren't exactly like the show, making them harder to sell.
Bag of Magic Food
User avatar
Joined: Aug 31, 2011

Post by Orange Fluffy Sheep (?) » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:30 pm

Kraps wrote:It's mostly about how the trifecta of MLP/G.I. Joe/Transformers (and others) were of bad enough quality that the shows were just the framework for kids to make their own stories with the toys, and this may be the one drawback of today's admittedly excellent high-quality reboots.


That's a terrible excuse for terrible writing. Nothing will justify B.O.T. :rainbert:
Orange Fluffy Sheep
User avatar
ABANDON THREAD
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Feb 17, 2011
Gender: Male

Post by Lazy (?) » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:32 pm

I don't really think that worse plots are significantly easier to imagine new stuff for, or that it was like that on purpose.
Bag of Magic Food wrote:I thought the point would have been that making the show too good makes viewers so attached to it that they won't accept any toys that aren't exactly like the show, making them harder to sell.
Probably would have made more sense.
Image
Image
Lazy
User avatar
is he just gonna go bouty bouty
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Sep 19, 2011
Gender: Male

Post by Highbrow Dash (?) » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:36 pm

Lazy wrote:I don't really think that worse plots are significantly easier to imagine new stuff for, or that it was like that on purpose.


I don't think the article writer does, either :pinkieshrug:
Highbrow Dash
User avatar
AJ, Rarity! What's happening?
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Oct 15, 2011
Gender: Male

Post by MasterOfKnees (?) » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:58 pm

As a kid I never watched those kinds of cartoons, I would always prefer the more humoristic shows like Ed, Edd n' Eddy and I Am Weasel, while I would watch a few adventurous shows like Digimon Adventure. I have never thought that those kind of shows like the 80s MLP did anything for me, so I never bothered with them, which is a side effect of having those very 1-dimensional shows that want to leave space for the children to explore their creativity with the toys. As a child I'd be creative if I wanted to, no matter if it held up to the show's characters (I especially stepped on Digimon's characters, making them puppets controlled by my imagination.)

Nothing will stop a truly creative child, that's for sure, because they don't really care if anything is out of character or not, so the whole argument is kind of pointless to me. However, I am a 90s kid, so that may affect it somewhat, the old Transformers and MLP still aired when I was watching cartoons 24/7 though.
MasterOfKnees
User avatar
Joined: Jun 08, 2012
Gender: Male

Post by Grim (?) » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:27 am

"Back in MY day everything was pretty lame and disengaging, so we had to get creative to fill the gap! Kids these days? Nope, they can't do that anymore!"

SlateSlabrock wrote:Forcing children to turn off the TV and the GameBoy and go outside will do more for their creative development than any show.
Or they might spend all that time outside thinking about their favorite shows or what their plan is for the next time they get their hands on that Game Boy, as well as wondering why in this horrible world they must go to the boring place instead. :gonkity:
ImageImageImage
Grim
User avatar
I'M THE WORLD CHAMP BETCHA CAN'T BEAT ME
BALL SO HARD LITTLE GIRLS WANT A PONY
Special Flowers
Joined: Oct 05, 2011
Location: BAD_PLACE
Gender: Female
  • Website
  • Website

Post by itinerant nomad (?) » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:08 am

That's a kind of fluffy article, is it not? I don't interpret it as trying too hard to find a profound truth about life, it's a slightly long-form quip.
The buildup sections on nostalgia and the sometimes questionable quality of many cartoons in that time period don't seem too controversial to me, but it's not heavyweight analysis.
The one bit of meat where the author takes a bit of a stand and states the opinion that makes up the headline is where I don't agree.

I thought I'd write only a few lines on this, but I found at the end that I failed in that regard.

But maybe all this is doing the kids a disservice. The toons are totally engaging, but they’re consumption-only transactions—no action-figuring needed.


Any archived and recreated media is consumption-only.
I shall state my opinion that if these shows only had one redeeming value, and I don't think things were that dire, it would be that they were something the kids loved.
That's what inspired untold hours of make-believe and put together stories, not the fact that some TV shows' writers did not have the means, the permission, or in some cases the desire to do a better job with something.
It's a perfectly common and easy idea to put forward, that something good came because of some completely uninspiring failure or some so-watered-down-it's-homeopathic extraction of one of the Seven Deadly Sins.
It's the sort of cliche I imagine someone writing down with that smarmy smug brow from a Dreamworks animation poster.

Give a kid a story or characters to love. It's human to want to make a world out of the things one loves. You can do all sorts of gimmicks like sawing a multimedia presentation in half by junking the audio, or you can try to find good raw materials for learning what goes into making a story. For the carnivorous readers out there, I'm advocating teaching a kid how the fictional sausage is made, not ripping the bratwurst out of the bun and telling them the empty bread and grease imprint is a learning experience.

Telling a story that leaves the audience wanting more can be sufficient motivation to put together new ideas or mentally assimilate tricks or devices that could be useful later.
Note that a story can leave them wanting more without it being itself wanting.

I think there can be a perverse benefit to seeing exemplars of poor or shoddy work as cautionary examples--a form of literary autopsy as to the cause of a story's death, but overall I wouldn't put as much emphasis on that little silver lining.
Providing good examples that show what it is like to use a sound plot structure, storytelling devices, and allusions to other works can reveal that there is so much a storyteller can do to make words or pictures turn expectations on their head or to evoke emotions and the senses.

I think minds can still be creative when given something good to start with.
Is it necessary to credit widespread child malnutrition if a famous gourmet chef came up from a hard childhood where he frequently went hungry?
itinerant nomad
User avatar
Surprise Pedantry!
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
Location: Flyover country

Post by Frith (?) » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:41 pm

But maybe all this is doing the kids a disservice. The toons are totally engaging, but they’re consumption-only transactions—no action-figuring needed.

IMO those 80s cartoons did even bigger disservice to children because those cartoon confirmed perception that men like guns and violence and women like tea parties. This block thinking is main reason why watching MLP: FiM has been made so ridiculously big deal.
Frith
User avatar
Joined: Jun 21, 2012
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Gender: Male

Post by Bag of Magic Food (?) » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:41 pm

Which 80s cartoons are you talking about though? If we're still on just the Hasbro toy ones, I know My Little Pony 'n' Friends was just as action-oriented as the guy shows most of the time, and while I haven't seen much of Jem, I've heard it was pretty well-written for a cartoon about jealous girl bands.
Bag of Magic Food
User avatar
Joined: Aug 31, 2011

Post by Frith (?) » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:45 pm

Bag of Magic Food wrote:Which 80s cartoons are you talking about though? If we're still on just the Hasbro toy ones, I know My Little Pony 'n' Friends was just as action-oriented as the guy shows most of the time, and while I haven't seen much of Jem, I've heard it was pretty well-written for a cartoon about jealous girl bands.

I meant Hasbro cartoons. I also admit that "women like tea parties" sentence was exaggerated.

The thing i wanted to say in my previous post was that the claim, that children should rather watch "crappy" 80s cartoons than excellent remakes because children 80s cartoons made kids more creative, is absurd. TV's role is not to make kids more creative, but rather to provide the best possible entertaiment.
Frith
User avatar
Joined: Jun 21, 2012
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Gender: Male

Post by Wonkadoo (?) » Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:24 pm

Frith wrote:I meant Hasbro cartoons. I also admit that "women like tea parties" sentence was exaggerated.

The thing i wanted to say in my previous post was that the claim, that children should rather watch "crappy" 80s cartoons than excellent remakes because children 80s cartoons made kids more creative, is absurd. TV's role is not to make kids more creative, but rather to provide the best possible entertaiment.


That's not what the claim was. The claim was that the better shows don't have the side effect of inspiring creativity to the same degree. I don't think that's correct, but it's not the same as saying kids "should" watch crappy 80's cartoons.
Wonkadoo
User avatar
Joined: Mar 02, 2012
Gender: Male

Post by Headless Horse (?) » Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:04 pm

It's pretty much just a half-baked theory based on a non-repeatable experiment with a non-reproducible result.

That's the infuriating thing about history.

(i.e. it could well be totally right.)
Headless Horse
User avatar
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011

Post by Scuderia Ferrarity (?) » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:21 pm

I wonder if there's anyone studying this MLP phenomenon that thinks that they can reproduce the level of fan intensity -
putting in variables A-B-C-D into a box (character mix, art style), pressing a button and suddenly 3500 are attending a fan convention.

I suppose the best and most consistent thing any animation team can do is create something of quality and hope your audience catches on.
Scuderia Ferrarity
User avatar
Why?
Because Twilight Sparkle.
That's why.

-- Twilight Sparkle
Fashion Queens
Joined: Feb 14, 2011

Post by Ashenai (?) » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:37 pm

Scuderia Ferrarity wrote:I wonder if there's anyone studying this MLP phenomenon that thinks that they can reproduce the level of fan intensity -
putting in variables A-B-C-D into a box (character mix, art style), pressing a button and suddenly 3500 are attending a fan convention.

I suppose the best and most consistent thing any animation team can do is create something of quality and hope your audience catches on.


I remember there was the hilarious "belly bros" email where a PR person was hoping to reproduce MLP's success. It really doesn't work that way :gotcha:
Ashenai
User avatar

You're dorkin' up the skies, Twilight Sparkle.

Semper Pie
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
Gender: Male

Post by Pocket (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:19 am

I used to make up stories for my Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends toys. They sucked, but I'd contend that they would have sucked even more if I hadn't had the originals for inspiration. Creativity is best inspired by other creativity. Otherwise you're likely to end up reinventing the wheel.

And speaking of reinventing the wheel, one of the things that grabbed my attention about Friendship Is Magic early on was that its writers avoided and in some cases bulldozed right over the clichés I'd come to expect from shows for little kids. The funny thing is, if other writers for that genre hadn't spent the last couple of decades lazily rehashing those clichés on the grounds that it's still going to be novel to its target audience, we probably wouldn't be nearly as impressed with it.

Makes me wonder if new viewers will still be able to appreciate this show in another decade or so, or if it'll end up being one of those things that establishes the new norm and ends up looking bland and trite compared to the shows that follow in its footsteps.
itinerant nomad wrote:Can a unicorn dye her aura?
Pocket
User avatar
is she just gonna go booty booty
Rainbow Racers
Joined: Sep 28, 2011

Post by Aramek (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:15 pm

I do like guns and violence, though. I just also love me some tea parties. :vogue:
Image ImageImage
Aramek
User avatar
Your MRI results have shown total infection to now be approximately one fifth of the full mass of the tissue.

"So you're saying..."

Your brain is about 20% tumor.
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Feb 25, 2011
Location: Fargo, ND.
Gender: Male

Post by Frith (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:05 pm

I'm glad that someone else also like tea parties. And guns i learned to love during my conscription time. But violence is bad, hopefully you don't like it too much.
Frith
User avatar
Joined: Jun 21, 2012
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Gender: Male

Post by brakeless (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:01 pm

Frith wrote:And guns i learned to love during my conscription time.


How on this good green earth did you manage that? By the time I was done, all I had in my heart for them was apathy tinged with a little bit of resentment. It'd be easier to grow attached to a 4 kg rock that you have to haul with you everywhere, at least it'd be easier to clean after crawling through a bog.



Er, 80's cartoons? TMNT for life, yo.
Image
brakeless
User avatar
A pegasus will fly long and hard for a bit of gilded brass.
Applejack Aces
Joined: Apr 22, 2011

Post by Scuderia Ferrarity (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:02 pm

Pocket wrote:Makes me wonder if new viewers will still be able to appreciate this show in another decade or so, or if it'll end up being one of those things that establishes the new norm and ends up looking bland and trite compared to the shows that follow in its footsteps.


Well, they are basically walking talking toys, giant manes and cutie marks, etc. And the world they inhabit* is fairly simple, at least on the surface. But their dialog isn't stilted or unnatural for the most part.

I suppose it's an all or nothing sort of deal, we'd have turned our noses up at it and walked away early on. I think it's hard to improve on FiM in the character department.

* At least it's not the G3 cartoons
:v: "We can't all ride the Ferris wheel!"

Eep. I'm late-ish for work. :-P
Scuderia Ferrarity
User avatar
Why?
Because Twilight Sparkle.
That's why.

-- Twilight Sparkle
Fashion Queens
Joined: Feb 14, 2011

Post by Aramek (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:10 pm

It's harder to shoot COBRA troopers with a rock. :v:
Image ImageImage
Aramek
User avatar
Your MRI results have shown total infection to now be approximately one fifth of the full mass of the tissue.

"So you're saying..."

Your brain is about 20% tumor.
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Feb 25, 2011
Location: Fargo, ND.
Gender: Male

Post by Pineapple (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:11 pm

That's pretty much what I've always said about that era of cartoons. The concepts and characters were engaging enough that our imaginations filled in where a budget of 63 cents for animation and scripts failed.
Pineapple
User avatar
because I do not
Princesses of Soul
Joined: Feb 15, 2011
Location: Lawn Island, NY
Gender: Female
  • Website
  • Skype

Post by Headless Horse (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:18 pm

To some extent there's the possibility that we're all gung-ho about FiM because we're too close to it, that the old shows look wonky to us because our standards have changed. But for some reason I doubt that the people working on G1 and G3 seriously thought those shows were "the best they could be". They were acutely aware of the budget and technical constraints they were under and that the standard of kids' entertainment writing was not exactly high art. They probably would have made those shows a hundred times better if they'd had the means. Whereas I believe the people working on FiM are genuinely proud of it and think there's very little they could improve about it even if they had a much bigger budget.

It's like, Bakshi would have made Jackson's LotR movie if he'd had the technology; but I can't quite see how someone 20 years from now will be able to improve on Jackson.

(But then again they're rebooting Spider-Man already and citing the limitations of early-2000s filmmaking technology and stunt work as the main reason, so what the hell do I know.)
Headless Horse
User avatar
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011

Post by Mr. Big (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:24 pm

Headless Horse wrote: But for some reason I doubt that the people working on G1 and G3 seriously thought those shows were "the best they could be".

That's not an uncommon attitude for the animation people. I've met and talked to people who worked for Filmation and they were very aware that the shows they worked on were junk. They just went through the motions for paycheck and union health benefits. Same thing for people who worked at other studios around this time.
My Blog
I have a Tumblr!
I'M TAKING COMMISSIONS. See here!
Mr. Big
User avatar
Brush is mightier than pen.
Scootaloo's Pro Scooters
Joined: Mar 27, 2011
Location: Martin, TN
Gender: Male

Post by kefkafloyd (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:15 pm

I believe Mr. Big mentioned that Tex Avery did Kwicky Koala just for the health insurance. :fluttersmith:
kefkafloyd
User avatar
The Night Mare Cometh.
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Feb 14, 2011
Location: Horse Pun For Boston
Gender: Male
  • Website
  • Skype

Post by Mr. Big (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:20 pm

Lauren Faust once wrote that "Quest for Camelot" was the worst thing she ever worked on, saying that everyone who worked on it knew it was going to be a failure.
My Blog
I have a Tumblr!
I'M TAKING COMMISSIONS. See here!
Mr. Big
User avatar
Brush is mightier than pen.
Scootaloo's Pro Scooters
Joined: Mar 27, 2011
Location: Martin, TN
Gender: Male

Post by Wayoshi (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:09 pm

Lauren worked on Care Bears sometime? :gah:
Image Image Image :milkshake:
Wayoshi
User avatar
She's the best around, nothing can keep a Fluttershy down.
Stare Masters
Joined: Oct 26, 2011
Gender: Male
  • Website

Post by Scuderia Ferrarity (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:12 pm

(But then again they're rebooting Spider-Man already and citing the limitations of early-2000s filmmaking technology and stunt work as the main reason, so what the hell do I know.)


bullSHIT! that's a minor hiatus, not a reboot. And they spent $300 mil in 2007 on Spidey 3. What could they possibly be missing out on?

Oh and it looks like a third Iron Man is coming out. I think Marvel is running out of bankable properties :sheepish: but holy jeepus, what a run.


They need to give FiM the Hollywood treatment and spend ten times the budget of seasons one two and three combined.

:flattered: What could they spend all that money on?
:vogue: Well, those diamonds you'll see on screen aren't free!
:speakest: Do you have any idea how much it costs to rent a moon?
:crack: And extras! Lots and lots of extras!
Last edited by Scuderia Ferrarity on Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Scuderia Ferrarity
User avatar
Why?
Because Twilight Sparkle.
That's why.

-- Twilight Sparkle
Fashion Queens
Joined: Feb 14, 2011

Post by Headless Horse (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:16 pm

If relevant:

http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/m ... vzo2pHeNlM

Not saying I buy it, but it's more amusing than the more widely accepted story of "Raimi couldn't get the script for IV tidied up enough so they fired him". :pinkieshrug:
Headless Horse
User avatar
Faithful Students
Joined: May 23, 2011

Post by T-6000 (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:12 pm

I'd have to greatly disagree with that article. By making a good story driven series with complex and deep characters, it makes you care for the characters and story. And thus inspire you to make good imaginative stories with toys. I'm a late 80s-early 90s kid (but i'd like to think that the first half of the 90s were an extension of the 80s) so I watched plenty of flat written shows. But I saw some well written shows as well, and that actually helped inspire me to make up some deep (and sometimes emotional) stories with my toys. Kids aren't dumb, they can adapt and make some creative "add-on" stories. The well written shows won't take away kids' own stories, I believe it helps inspire them to make some of their own stories with their own toys too.

I think Hasbro had the right idea when they resurrected some of their old shows into new shows but with well written stories. They help hook in kids, and as I said before the well written stories doesn't take away from kids imaginations but help build on them and add to them. Kids may be inexperienced, but they aren't complete idiots. And I think it's high time we stopped treating them like complete idiots. And in addition, the style of the story and characters in the new MLP series (at least I feel) helps give little girls a boost in confidence. That they can grow up to be strong & self leading female characters like Applejack and Rainbow Dash, not grow into the stereotypical "Kitchen Moms", sex objects (take a look at alot of old shows that introduce female characters. Most of them were just there for the main male protagonist to drool over, or to help rescue to feel empowered. Or both), or "Damsels in Distress".

I think the article writer underestimates the creativity of kids today, and missing the point of making strong & smart female characters. Then again, Wired and I rarely ever see eye to eye.
Image
T-6000
User avatar
PC Gamer, and Indestructible Alien Android.
Joined: May 03, 2012

Post by Frith (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:16 pm

Mr. Big wrote:Lauren Faust once wrote that "Quest for Camelot" was the worst thing she ever worked on, saying that everyone who worked on it knew it was going to be a failure.

You can find that writing here:
http://donbluthanimation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1619
I just watched Quest for Camelot and... It's better i don't write anything about that movie.
WB executives would have been good to see Suited for Success, unfortunately it was only made in 2011.

PS. Gary Oldman probably remembers the 1998 with warmth
Frith
User avatar
Joined: Jun 21, 2012
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Gender: Male

Post by Jupiter (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:02 pm

Scuderia Ferrarity wrote:
bullSHIT! that's a minor hiatus, not a reboot. And they spent $300 mil in 2007 on Spidey 3. What could they possibly be missing out on?

Oh and it looks like a third Iron Man is coming out. I think Marvel is running out of bankable properties :sheepish: but holy jeepus, what a run.

These things are related, in that if Sony doesn't keep pumping out movies the rights default back to Marvel, who then get to make "Spiderman and the Avengers" and then swim around in their money like Scrooge McDuck.
Jupiter
User avatar
Dermatologists Hate Her!
Local Apple discovers weird old trick
Joined: Mar 07, 2011
Gender: Male

Post by Aramek (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:44 pm

On one hand, too many movies.
On the other, all of them have been awesome. :awesomedash:
Image ImageImage
Aramek
User avatar
Your MRI results have shown total infection to now be approximately one fifth of the full mass of the tissue.

"So you're saying..."

Your brain is about 20% tumor.
Rarity's Roughnecks
Joined: Feb 25, 2011
Location: Fargo, ND.
Gender: Male

Post by Wayoshi (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:49 pm

Ohhh... Warner Bros.' fault. Gotcha :unenthused:
Image Image Image :milkshake:
Wayoshi
User avatar
She's the best around, nothing can keep a Fluttershy down.
Stare Masters
Joined: Oct 26, 2011
Gender: Male
  • Website

Post by Nissl (?) » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:55 pm

I don't think I would have been damaged if Thundercats had been better written and taken place in a more developed world. But then I was never much of an artist tempermentally.

Scuderia Ferrarity wrote:I wonder if there's anyone studying this MLP phenomenon that thinks that they can reproduce the level of fan intensity -
putting in variables A-B-C-D into a box (character mix, art style), pressing a button and suddenly 3500 are attending a fan convention.


I would be really interested to see what happened if someone did another sincere animated comedy with a trippy, large, consistent fantasy world, moderate character progression and large ensemble cast, and stripped out the "girly" parts. You wouldn't get the same phenomenon because it probably wouldn't have the same care put into it, people are already watching MLP, it wouldn't have such a well-recognized brand, etc. But I bet you would pick up plenty of geek followers if the quality was decent.
Nissl
User avatar
Marching bravely into a bold new pony future
Semper Pie
Joined: Jul 04, 2011

Post by Bag of Magic Food (?) » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:55 am

Headless Horse wrote:To some extent there's the possibility that we're all gung-ho about FiM because we're too close to it, that the old shows look wonky to us because our standards have changed. But for some reason I doubt that the people working on G1 and G3 seriously thought those shows were "the best they could be". They were acutely aware of the budget and technical constraints they were under and that the standard of kids' entertainment writing was not exactly high art. They probably would have made those shows a hundred times better if they'd had the means. Whereas I believe the people working on FiM are genuinely proud of it and think there's very little they could improve about it even if they had a much bigger budget.

A thought occurred to me back when I was watching those "Evolution of a scene" videos: What if they'd just left the scene looking the way it was on the first try? What if they did that with every scene? I could see the animation getting pretty stiff and unconvincing after a while. And what if that approach spread to the writing, giving us bigger and bigger logic holes, episode after episode? Of course! That must be how all those other cartoons get made! :starity:

Though I will say that the previous My Little Pony series hit gold whenever they included a character like Minty who was more effed in the head than the average G3 pony, turning the whole thing into a winking parody of itself.
Bag of Magic Food
User avatar
Joined: Aug 31, 2011

Post by SlateSlabrock (?) » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:23 am

Nissl wrote:I don't think I would have been damaged if Thundercats had been better written and taken place in a more developed world. But then I was never much of an artist tempermentally.

The Smithsonian Museum of Modern Animated Art presents, "That Blasted Samoflange: Interpretations of Scripting Ambiguity."

I would be really interested to see what happened if someone did another sincere animated comedy with a trippy, large, consistent fantasy world, moderate character progression and large ensemble cast, and stripped out the "girly" parts. You wouldn't get the same phenomenon because it probably wouldn't have the same care put into it, people are already watching MLP, it wouldn't have such a well-recognized brand, etc. But I bet you would pick up plenty of geek followers if the quality was decent.

Agreed. We already see this with pretty much all shows aimed at an older market. A series like Venture Brothers has a lot of time and effort invested in it, and people flock to it. The new Disney show Gravity Falls has people excited after one episode. I think people gravitate toward quality, whether it's light comedy like Adventure Time or more plot-driven like Avatar... at least, in the cartoon market. Kids might be perfectly happy to sit in front of other shows for half an hour, but nobody else will give them the time of day.
SlateSlabrock
User avatar
Joined: Feb 14, 2011

Post by Pocket (?) » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:12 am

Scuderia Ferrarity wrote:I wonder if there's anyone studying this MLP phenomenon that thinks that they can reproduce the level of fan intensity - putting in variables A-B-C-D into a box (character mix, art style), pressing a button and suddenly 3500 are attending a fan convention.

I guarantee that there is, namely whoever it is at Hasbro that's been trying (and failing) to recreate the success of the Transformers films for the last few years.

Actually, come to think of it, that's probably the same person who conceived the Hub in the first place.
itinerant nomad wrote:Can a unicorn dye her aura?
Pocket
User avatar
is she just gonna go booty booty
Rainbow Racers
Joined: Sep 28, 2011

Next

Return to General Ponies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CorpusCavernosum, Discord, EricMRyan, Highbrow Dash, Hi!, Lapis Infinitas, Scuderia Ferrarity and 4 guests