The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wonders

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Lilli » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:28 am

So after two months of electro I barely have any facial hair at all. I just let it grow out for a full week and I had so little hair grow out that I ended up rescheduling my electro appointment yesterday for next week. God I am so tired of facial hair, I'm glad to be almost finished with it.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by CorvusCaw (?) » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:21 pm

Huzzah for you! :ohboy:
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Momo (?) » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:23 pm

I'm actually growing mine for Movember. Mostly to confuse the boss I came out to. Because that's the sense of humour I have.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Bigdog (?) » Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:27 pm

I started regrowing mine before Movember and I'm not about to start over again. :-I

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Ninetails (?) » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:56 pm

I... kind of have two cuts on my face because I started trying to claw off my facial hair :modesty:

This is a bit less serious than it sounds, because I'm the kind of person who just starts picking at things, and I happened to have my hand on my face at the time. But yeah, I can't really stand to look at myself without shaving like every two days. I don't do it every day because that takes too much effort :v:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by West Filly (?) » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:26 pm

I can't stand to look at myself anyway. Somehow, over the course of a year or so, the corners of my hairline have migrated from their starting position to somewhere above my ears. My hair is long, but I'm past the point where I can hide the hairline with it now. I can stand not to shave, if only because I can't see any semblance of a woman in the mirror any more, unless I throw on a beanie hat.

The next time I actually have some money (pretty hard without a job or any other kind of income) I'll be diving into the world of "hair systems". I try to big up the advantages of wigs, like an instant and temporary change in colour and style at my command, but I'll always know what I'm hiding underneath, and the fact that I'm just covering up.

I can't express how much stress this has caused me. I was so happy to dress up earlier this year. I was thinking that I'd be fulltime by the end of this year. My increasing baldness has shaken my confidence. When I wear my good clothes now, I find it hard to look in the mirror, just because the sight of a bald person in a dress (plus makeup) is kinda :gonkity:

It's awful. I remember when I was a kid, never wanting to get my hair cut. I remember learning about puberty and not wanting any of it. I remember when I was 13, stealing my sister's clothes. I remember cross dressing among friends for fun when I was 15, and being crazy gender neutral in public for so long. My friends were slightly disturbed about my desire for cross dressing, I remember. I just wish that someone had told me that a full transition was even a thing. I knew that some people got "sex changes", but the way it was presented to me made it seem like transgender people were some kind of freak phenomenon, not anything like myself. It's these forums, and meeting trans people in real life, that taught me what I needed to know for me to understand myself. But that wasn't before testosterones launched some pretty weighty invasions on my image.

And don't tell me that hormones will give me my hair back. There's no assurance of that. In fact, the GICs in the UK say on their website that it tends not to happen. My only chance of a decent natural hairline is earning enough to pay/borrow for some expensive surgeries.

It won't stop me, and I'm happier when I can get my image somewhat right. I just really want to purge some of the distress that I feel knowing that I have this very visible masculine feature on the top of my face. It's just :gonkity:
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Venusy (?) » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:42 pm

Sorry IWF. :fluttersmith: Most I can offer is a hug if I'm ever in the Lincoln area again, but I know that won't solve the problem.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by West Filly (?) » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:03 pm

If I get referred to Sheffield Gender Identity Clinic (it'll either be there or Nottingham according to my psych) I'll be calling you out on that hug :colbert: :hug:
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Call of Duty Ghosts (?) » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:26 pm

[quote="In post_id=52460 time=1383438405 user_id=130]I knew that some people got "sex changes", but the way it was presented to me made it seem like transgender people were some kind of freak phenomenon, not anything like myself. It's these forums, and meeting trans people in real life, that taught me what I needed to know for me to understand myself. But that wasn't before testosterones launched some pretty weighty invasions on my image.[/quote]Same here.
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by CorvusCaw (?) » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:57 pm

The post I was replying to disappeared... :shocktavia:
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Bigdog (?) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:05 am

Society has a lot of ways of trying to discourage people from pursuing alternatives to their assigned roles (which includes not just gender identity, but other such things as social class), and one of the mechanisms used is that sort of obfuscation of the available options. It seems like it's taken a long time for things to become even as relatively transparent and de-stigmatized as they are today, and as I'm sure I don't have to tell anybody who's going through it, there can still be a heck of a lot of gatekeeping and barrier-raising in place--some of it done with good intentions, but much not.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Ragnar (?) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:13 am

I'm currently transcribing the settlement agreement for a child custody case between a lesbian couple. :allears:
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by CorvusCaw (?) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:06 am

oops :-/
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Ragnar (?) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:11 am

They were allowed to try to make a relationship work by society in general, and they got a kid out of it, and they love the kid enough to fight over the chance to be with him. The court and the lawyers treated the two identically to the way they would have treated a hetero couple. Seriously, everyone involved acted identically to how they would have in any other case. The judge, the lawyers, everyone. No jokes. No awkwardness. Just bright-eyed optimism from family lawyers looking to get what they can for their clients, and a sober, concerned judge up front asking questions to make sure everyone understands and is content with the situation.

It's a shame the relationship didn't work out, but it happens, and, after all, they did settle their differences after a successful mediation session, at least in regards to custody and child support. In terms of the big picture, I don't think there's anything for anyone to regret here. Meanwhile, the State of Maryland can apparently address a family law case between nontraditional couples (well, ex-couples) without so much as a peep, at least in this case.

So why "oops"?
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by CorvusCaw (?) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:18 am

Ragnar wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:11 am

So why "oops"?
was trying to post in pony joe's and posted here on accident
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Ragnar (?) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:20 am

Oh, sorry. :modesty: Hope I didn't make anything worse for you.
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Madeline (?) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:38 am

Portia de Rossi on how difficult it was for her to come out.

Some of her remarks particularly resonated with me.
Portia de Rossi wrote:"I just didn't want to be a lesbian," de Rossi stated. "I'd never met one for a start and I just thought they were strange and that they hated men and they were very serious and I had these ridiculous images in my head and there were no out celebrities or politicians or anybody that I could look to and go, 'Oh, I could be like that.' There was nobody that I could say, 'I could date her and I want to be like her'... I just kind of thought I don't want to live like this. I don't have to, I don't need to, I just shut down the emotional life.''
I admit I often feel this way about being trans. I really would prefer to have been just cis-born... anything. It's one of the reasons I don't like going to GSA meetings, or to the LGBT community center (well, there you also have the public displays of affection that bother me a lot, because I am a huge prude no matter how hard I try not to be one :fluttersmith: ). I don't mind being around gay couples, or lesbian couples, but being around other trans people makes me terribly uncomfortable because it's a big fat reminder of what I am. Like how people will always see trans people of any kind as freakish and weird, because we're so rare relative to the rest of the population, or how we're pretty much the punch line of the internet these days.

It used to make me depressed, but now it just makes me angry every time I think about it. It's a subject that does nothing but fuel my misanthropy. At the same time, I don't want to get caught in that little Tumblr bubble where everyone can just shun or shame anyone who doesn't share the majority opinion, because that's terribly unhealthy too. Especially because if you stay in a hugbox forever, you're going to be shocked the second you step out of it into the wider world. Sooner or later, you have to face how unpleasant the world and its peoples can be. It's futile to hide from it, so you might as well engage and defy it the best you can.

I don't know. I think the only reason I haven't totally given up and gone back into the closet (despite constantly wanting to, and threatening to at weak moments) is because I don't want to let the assholes of the world tell me what I should do with my identity. I just can't imagine choosing this life for myself and I resent getting stuck with it, though.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Call of Duty Ghosts (?) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:17 am

I really don't have anything to add, sorry, but I struggle with the same things and feel the same way.

Edit: Though I also kind of struggle with seeing gay couples, and hetero couples. I kind of struggle with seeing men or masculine-looking people, because it reminds me of my body. :fluttersmith:
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Perpetual Motion (?) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:55 am

I struggle with similar things because even the slightest displays of sexuality weird me out. I've gotten a lot better about it recently, being better able to handle PDAs without getting really awkward (well, more awkward than I already am), but people talking about sexual things really grates on me, and I can't do anything about it because it's not fair to the people around me to limit their discussion of perfectly natural topics. I wish I had normal drives and feelings like everyone else, rather than straight aversion. It only accentuates how lonely I feel.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Chaos Sonic (?) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:13 am

I still struggle with my old prejudices some, and seeing gay couples display affection still makes me uncomfortable sometimes. I really am getting better about it, but it still makes me feel like an asshole every damn time. :fluttersmith:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Headless Horse (?) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:36 am

People frequently have stories about coming out to their bosses. Well, mine is gay.

Times they are a-changin'.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Mordja » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:42 am

Wait, isn't that because you're self-employed? :squintyjack:
Either way, that must have been so disappointing to you. :gotcha:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Headless Horse (?) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:52 am

Nah, I mean in my day job. It's a software startup. Eight people crammed into a little one-room Manhattan office. And the tech architect guy's a great big queer-mo. :smirk:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by concerned reader (?) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:58 am

[quote="Headless post_id=52478 time=1383486722 user_id=126]Nah, I mean in my day job. It's a software startup. Eight people crammed into a little one-room Manhattan office. And the tech architect guy's a great big queer-mo. :smirk:[/quote]
Look, just because the guy likes to play with big hard erections doesn't mean he's gay. :gotcha:

(yes I realize that a tech architect is different, but that runs the joke)

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Call of Duty Ghosts (?) » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:15 pm

[quote="Concerned post_id=52479 time=1383487111 user_id=109]
Look, just because the guy likes to play with big hard erections doesn't mean he's gay. :gotcha:

(yes I realize that a tech architect is different, but that runs the joke)[/quote]Actually the operating system runs the joke, he just tells the programmers how to develop it. :gotcha:
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Logicgate (?) » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:11 am

Pseudonym wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:15 pm
Actually the operating system runs the joke, he just tells the programmers how to develop it. :gotcha:
And the programmers can make use of operating system features and functions by means of its robust gayPI

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Aramek (?) » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:37 am

So, GBS seems to have had something...happen to it. And now everyone is all shitposty and hatin' on them trans folks.

What's the deallyo?
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Momo (?) » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:43 am

I stopped paying attention to Something Awful ages ago. This is not a strong motivator for me to go check. :-/

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Bigdog (?) » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:53 am

Aramek wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:37 am
So, GBS seems to have had something...happen to it. And now everyone is all shitposty and hatin' on them trans folks.

What's the deallyo?
Proving the rule that when you make it okay to use certain expressions in a joking, "ironic" or satirical manner (which I don't think is a bad idea full stop) there will be people whose tone, posting history, exact choice of words etc. make it seem uncomfortably likely that they're not joking.

I always sort of suspected that when your average goon talked disparagingly about 'tumblr social justice warriors' or whatever, they were actually using it as a safe dogwhistle for expressing their contempt towards anything less normative than a vanilla cis white gay male getting married to his life partner, and the fact that the same people seem to post in both sorts of threads in GBS 2.1 tends to confirm that for me.

Mind you, I toss out my own fair share of jokes about the SJW strawman, so something like this really makes me take a look in the mirror.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by BackgroundPony (?) » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:00 am

Aramek wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:37 am
So, GBS seems to have had something...happen to it. And now everyone is all shitposty and hatin' on them trans folks.

What's the deallyo?
They're doing a silly 'turn GBS into a FYAD-lite' thing. Or for the non-SA folks around here, essentially they made their main discussion forum into LYAT. So 'ironic' hate speech is going to be the order of the day until they switch back. I don't care much, I just read SA from my bookmarked threads these days, and 90% of those are in the games subforums anyway. But it is pretty dumb in there at the moment.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Aramek (?) » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:07 am

You kids and your irony. :v:
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by West Filly (?) » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:10 am

Tone is very hard to read on the internet. When many start posting things ironically, those who do want to post out of malicious intent misunderstand, and believe that they are in good company.

Not to mention that there's this strange convention of deliberately attempting to say the most shocking things. It's as though awful things are of themselves funny if you decide to blurt them out mindlessly. It's hard to explain, but I was once your average 4chan user and Redditor, and I know what I mean. At least, in the minds of many internet societies, saying stupid things brings a social reward. You're able to feel good because you feel like you've contributed to the comedy of this thread if you say something dumb. Everyone around you is joining in, laughing, having a good time. The odd "hater" comes in, and they're "butthurt", and they're a "ferret". People won't think if they've been sucked into this whirlpoop. If you're not adding poop to the shit pile, then you're the "other" - the person who will now be mocked. There's no breaching the whirlpoop with reason. If you're trying to reason with the shit pile, you're not adding to it. If you're not adding poop to the pile, you're going to get shit on.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Bigdog (?) » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:20 am

I myself identify as a stoat, thank you very much.

this is what (lame) joking looks like

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Momo (?) » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:54 am

[quote="In post_id=52487 time=1383577847 user_id=130]Tone is very hard to read on the internet. When many start posting things ironically, those who do want to post out of malicious intent misunderstand, and believe that they are in good company.

Not to mention that there's this strange convention of deliberately attempting to say the most shocking things. It's as though awful things are of themselves funny if you decide to blurt them out mindlessly. It's hard to explain, but I was once your average 4chan user and Redditor, and I know what I mean. At least, in the minds of many internet societies, saying stupid things brings a social reward. You're able to feel good because you feel like you've contributed to the comedy of this thread if you say something dumb. Everyone around you is joining in, laughing, having a good time. The odd "hater" comes in, and they're "butthurt", and they're a "ferret". People won't think if they've been sucked into this whirlpoop. If you're not adding poop to the shit pile, then you're the "other" - the person who will now be mocked. There's no breaching the whirlpoop with reason. If you're trying to reason with the shit pile, you're not adding to it. If you're not adding poop to the pile, you're going to get shit on.

That's the internet. It sucks, but there it is.[/quote]
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Lilli » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:09 am

Aramek wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:37 am
So, GBS seems to have had something...happen to it. And now everyone is all shitposty and hatin' on them trans folks.

What's the deallyo?
GBS is now FYAD and also shit, everyone posts "ironic" hateful things towards various minority groups. Hope this helps.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Perpetual Motion (?) » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:31 am

Lately I've been feeling like everything about my identity is fake and used because it's easy. It's like I'm crafting myself like some tabletop RPG character and min-maxing the hell out of everything. I identify as trans, and yet do nothing about it, allowing me to feel the satisfaction of an identity that "fits", while retaining my cis white male privalage in all practical aspects of my life. I picked somewhere is the middle of the gender binary because having a firm definition of myself would create too many rules and I wouldn't be able to bullshit my way through my depressive thoughts.

It's self-serving and insulting to everyone else here who is actually taking a stand for their identity and fighting through dysphoria and social stigmas. I'm not doing any of that. I'm just co-opting things so that I can feel good about myself. So that I can feel special. I wish I felt strongly enough about who I am that it did cause me pain to not follow through on it. Then I'd know it was real and not just something born out of desperation and lazinessz

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Momo (?) » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:03 pm

Self doubt is healthy. It's a good sign that you're not simply deluding yourself. If your gender identity withstands major self-scrutiny, that's an answer. If it falls apart and you realize you're actually cis, that's another answer. Both are wonderful and nobody is going to resent you for moving back into the cis column.

As for the validity of the non-binary claim: welcome to the club. It's weird and confusing and shitty to feel comfortable outside the gender binary, but it's a different weird and confusing and shitty as belonging to the gender not assigned to you at birth. Sometimes I wonder if I'm just in denial about being trans because it's easier. Other times I worry that I've just assigned myself the 'trans' label because I'm not happy with the way my life turned out and want to reinvent myself, or as an excuse to take on social activism.

All I know is it feels great and wonderful and liberating to present as female, but it's nerve-wracking, empty and upsetting to live as female. I know I'm not trans. But I know I'm not cis. It's like being pulled by an invisible force in two different directions, and it's only a matter of time until it tears you apart.

I wish I could offer you a solution or a mode of thinking that makes it easier. As soon as I find one I'll let you know.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Bigdog (?) » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:11 pm

I guess what I'd say (cis white male alert) is that it seems perfectly understandable for someone to soothe their identify issues privately while not wanting to face the daunting subject of coming out. It might not be as brave as some, but acting like only the maximally brave deserve to feel good about themselves is frankly pretty silly. You didn't ask for being visibly trans to be as much of a potential troublebomb as it is. Nobody did (except for bigots, I guess). Same goes for not wanting to be bound by rules--I personally fit relatively comfortably inside the 'rules' but I recognize that they're arbitrary bullshit in many cases. I guess the only worry I'd have there is whether you are actually maximally true to yourself by being in the middle there. If you are, then relax! If you aren't, then address it because of that, not because of rules.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by West Filly (?) » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:18 pm

I don't do it because it's brave. The bravery has nothing to do with the legitimacy of the identity. If it were up to me, this would be completely normal, and everyone would be able to present themselves how they wanted without question. If it were up to me, this wouldn't be a front or anything. I want nothing more than to feel perfectly normal, not special.

Also, doubts are normal. I've had times where I'm presenting and I'm thinking "what the hell is this?" but Momar's right, doubts do make you think about things more. No matter where those thoughts lead, it's good to think about it. It sort of allows you to get real, in a weird way. It's hard to explain, but doubt somehow allows you to better understand exactly what you feel, and plan exactly the way you want to go about all this.
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minorities Thread II: So Many Wond

Post by Timber72 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:33 pm

Momar wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:03 pm
Self doubt is healthy. It's a good sign that you're not simply deluding yourself. If your gender identity withstands major self-scrutiny, that's an answer. If it falls apart and you realize you're actually cis, that's another answer.
What about you want to look and sound a certain way really badly, but you don't really care so much about titles or how people perceive you (as in male or female)?

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