Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
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Angry Critter
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
As a helplessly impulsive person, I can second that acting on every whim is a very bad idea.
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
Yeah, rip.
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
Somebody should step in and buy the distribution rights to Hoodwinked while they're desperate.
Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part that wonders what the part that isn't thinking isn't thinking of...
- Mr. Big
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
Maybe Berke Breathed can buy back the movie rights to Opus while we're at it.
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Madeline
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- Mr. Big
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
I've heard whispers about John K. for years, but I never realized it was much, much worse
There are rumors about Dan Schneider, too, who left Nick early this week.
There are rumors about Dan Schneider, too, who left Nick early this week.
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
This is kind of my go-to answer to this sort of thing too. Why fuss over separating the art from the artist? Why do they need to be separated at all? Let the art burn right along with its creator for all I care. We can always make more.And while Byrd teaches philosophy and undergraduate writing classes, Rice still works in animation and regularly encounters people asking her what it was like to work for “a legend.” It made her hesitant to criticize him, as if it would be her fault for tainting his work. But, sitting in a Burbank restaurant, she said, “I know a lot of people struggle with the ‘art vs. artist’ thing, and I get it. Like, I love Rosemary’s Baby. But would I watch another movie that he made, knowing what I know now?” she said, referring to the multiple rape allegations against filmmaker Roman Polanski.
“I would say no, I don’t want to watch it. I don’t want any part of that. There’s nice people you can hire. There’s nice people who can make things, there’s nice people who make cartoons. … They’re just as fucking good.”
Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part that wonders what the part that isn't thinking isn't thinking of...
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Madeline
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
The Dan Schneider rumors have been around for at least 11 years, when the Jamie Lynn Spears thing happened. Or at least, that’s when I first heard about them. Well before her boyfriend was introduced as the father, early media coverage persistently mentioned “a producer at Nick” as the cause. Ugh. There’s unsubstantiated rumors about Sumner Redstone as well (take with a mountain of salt), so it looks like all of Viacom might have a problem.
Re: John K, I already thought he was a terrible person but somehow I managed to be surprised by just how terrible he actually is anyway. Hope he ends up in prison for the child porn.
Separating the artist from the art only makes sense in the context of literary analysis, where as long as your reading is supported by the text, authorial intention doesn’t have to be taken as the final word. Humans aren’t born being rational, beep boop robots. The insistence on viewing creators as being separate from their work, but then lauding the creators for making it, always seems pretty irrational to me. I’m not going to lose sleep because I didn’t see some Woody Allen or Roman Polanski film. They aren’t the only people who have ever made movies. I’d rather reward people who aren’t assholes, too.
And if thet’s untenable with most current media industries, then they’re the institutions that need to change, not the audience. It shouldn’t have to be a binary choice between “work made by a scumbag” and “nothing.”
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
Yeaaah, and there's, of course, the situation with the creator of "Loud House" from few months back (there's a bitter irony that it was John K who gave Savino his first animation job on R&S).Madeline wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:47 amThe Dan Schneider rumors have been around for at least 11 years, when the Jamie Lynn Spears thing happened. Or at least, that’s when I first heard about them. Well before her boyfriend was introduced as the father, early media coverage persistently mentioned “a producer at Nick” as the cause. Ugh. There’s unsubstantiated rumors about Sumner Redstone as well (take with a mountain of salt), so it looks like all of Viacom might have a problem.
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
I'll only abandon the art if it reminds me of the artist. Lostprophets music is something that has me feeling uncomfortable, for example. However all the movies made by this Weinstein company are probably not going to remind me of Weinstein because who the hell remembers what company made a film anyhow? I'd struggle to make a list of their movies, and will probably keep watching them without knowing. It just doesn't strike me as a moral issue so much as a "does this make me feel gross?" issue.
Ren and Stimpy made me feel gross before any of this came out. That was the intent, but still.
Ren and Stimpy made me feel gross before any of this came out. That was the intent, but still.
- Mr. Big
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It can't be overstated just how much of a cult Spumco was. The die-hard loyalists for John treated him as the Jesus of animation, who would go after people who speaks out against him, even years after R&S went off the air. The stories of how they treated people who decided to go to Games (up to and including sending death threats) when Nick fired John is pretty aggravating. And it was still going on as recently as few years ago, when I was checking out John's blog.
There are two former Spumco people in particular who are super-loyal to John. I'm wondering what they'll say anything about this, if at all...
Among other things, I'm willing to bet that's what contributed to the allegations not coming out until now.
There are two former Spumco people in particular who are super-loyal to John. I'm wondering what they'll say anything about this, if at all...
Among other things, I'm willing to bet that's what contributed to the allegations not coming out until now.
- DarkMatter
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
I always knew John K was an asshole but I honestly didn't think it went much deeper beyond him being super full of himself and thinking he was god's gift to animation. I didn't realize just how much of a scumbag he actually was. Hearing how he groomed and manipulated those two was rotten enough but when it got to the mention of him possessing actual child porn on his computer I wanted to throw up. Fuck John K.
As for "separate the art from the artist", I try to do that when I can. I still really enjoy the film "Rosemary's Baby" while acknowledging that Roman Polanski is a scumbag. The anime "Recovery of an MMO Junkie" was one of my favorites of 2017 and I later found out the director is an anti-Semite Holocaust denier. But things like a movie, anime, or TV show are the efforts of more than just one person. And then you have situations like HP Lovecraft, who was a racist asshole, but his works are celebrated and influence our media even today.
But right now I don't think it's important to decide if we can still enjoy "Ren & Stimpy" or not. What's important is the bravery of these women for getting the word out there so people can realize what a piece of trash John K is outside of the whispers and murmurs that have apparently been going around in the animation industry. I don't even know what John K has been up to since "Ren & Stimpy: Adult Party Cartoon" but I hope he never finds work in animation ever again.
As for "separate the art from the artist", I try to do that when I can. I still really enjoy the film "Rosemary's Baby" while acknowledging that Roman Polanski is a scumbag. The anime "Recovery of an MMO Junkie" was one of my favorites of 2017 and I later found out the director is an anti-Semite Holocaust denier. But things like a movie, anime, or TV show are the efforts of more than just one person. And then you have situations like HP Lovecraft, who was a racist asshole, but his works are celebrated and influence our media even today.
But right now I don't think it's important to decide if we can still enjoy "Ren & Stimpy" or not. What's important is the bravery of these women for getting the word out there so people can realize what a piece of trash John K is outside of the whispers and murmurs that have apparently been going around in the animation industry. I don't even know what John K has been up to since "Ren & Stimpy: Adult Party Cartoon" but I hope he never finds work in animation ever again.
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Madeline
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
I suppose I have mixed feelings on the subject because I’ve been disappointed so many times. Adam Baldwin? Helped catalyze GamerGate, which popularized the alt-right to a lot of disgruntled young white men. John Lennon? Horrible, neglectful father to at least his first son, beat his first wife and all his girlfriends, tried to do the same to Yoko Ono until she walked out on him. (Sadly, one of the better human beings in this list, because he at least publically acknowledged that he was ashamed of himself for treating women like shit in his last few interviews before he was murdered?) David Bowie? Committed statutory rape with groupies, like just about every other famous musical figure of the last... well, all of human history, probably. Certainly between 1920 and now, thanks to mass media. Franz Liszt had groupies in the 1800s. Bowie gave heavily to groups that fought human trafficking in the last 20 years of his life, but he was so cagey, who knows if he had regretted his own behavior or even if he remembered it.
I don’t want to draw the line for people. I don’t even really like the thought of anyone having that sort of influence over anyone else. It’s not for me to tell other people how to feel, or what to think. And yes, it’s much more appropriate for the spotlight to be on the survivors, and their bravery in coming forward.
I don’t want to draw the line for people. I don’t even really like the thought of anyone having that sort of influence over anyone else. It’s not for me to tell other people how to feel, or what to think. And yes, it’s much more appropriate for the spotlight to be on the survivors, and their bravery in coming forward.
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
I wouldn't consider producers and distributors to be "artists" anyway; as long as they're cut off from any further revenue from the products (which Weinstein appears to have been), I'm OK continuing to consume products from a company they used to run, same as I wouldn't stop buying iPads if some horror stories suddenly came out about Steve Jobs. That said,West Filly wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:05 amI'll only abandon the art if it reminds me of the artist. Lostprophets music is something that has me feeling uncomfortable, for example. However all the movies made by this Weinstein company are probably not going to remind me of Weinstein because who the hell remembers what company made a film anyhow?
If anything comes out of this, I'm crossing my fingers that it leads to some kind of massive upheaval much like what's going on with the Weinstein Company right now, because fuck Viacom so hard.
I did always get sort of a creeper vibe from his work, but if you asked me "how so" I don't think I could put it into words beyond "uh he drew sexy women a lot?"DarkMatter wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:00 amI always knew John K was an asshole but I honestly didn't think it went much deeper beyond him being super full of himself and thinking he was god's gift to animation.
Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part that wonders what the part that isn't thinking isn't thinking of...
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
Reading further, John K. tried to revive Spumco as "Spumtwo" (seriously), this time located in Florida. Apparently they planned to work on a "Ren and Stimpy" short to run in front of SpongeBob Movie #3.
And what a shock, he tried to "recruit" a young female artist to work at the new studio. She shared her story on Twitter.
As far as "artist from art" thing, for what its worth John K. only worked on the first two seasons of R&S, with Bob Camp and others taking over for the rest. By all accounts, I think Camp deserves far more credit than he gets for the success of the show, and he's not a shithead like John. But YMMV.
And what a shock, he tried to "recruit" a young female artist to work at the new studio. She shared her story on Twitter.
As far as "artist from art" thing, for what its worth John K. only worked on the first two seasons of R&S, with Bob Camp and others taking over for the rest. By all accounts, I think Camp deserves far more credit than he gets for the success of the show, and he's not a shithead like John. But YMMV.
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it's interesting to see that he invited a lot of young women into the animation studio. I know this is a blunt way to express it but I wonder if there's some way we can discredit John K for the work of the show and start considering it as theirs instead.
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The underlings do most of the work in just about every facet of the film-making process without getting any of the credit. Hans Zimmer basically has a factory that churns out music in his name. I know this because I almost got a job there when I was fresh out of college. The same is true for animation, I'm sure.West Filly wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:27 amit's interesting to see that he invited a lot of young women into the animation studio. I know this is a blunt way to express it but I wonder if there's some way we can discredit John K for the work of the show and start considering it as theirs instead.
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Is it this one? Hans Zimmer's company is creating music for "The Simpsons" now after they laid off Alf Clausen.Octavia wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:20 amThe underlings do most of the work in just about every facet of the film-making process without getting any of the credit. Hans Zimmer basically has a factory that churns out music in his name. I know this because I almost got a job there when I was fresh out of college. The same is true for animation, I'm sure.
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It was called Remote Control Productions when I applied and had a couple interviews 10 years ago, so unless they changed the name, it's not the same one.Mr. Big wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:01 amIs it this one? Hans Zimmer's company is creating music for "The Simpsons" now after they laid off Alf Clausen.
I didn't know they laid off Alf Clausen. That sucks. He went to the same college I did and I got to meet him once when he spoke there while I was a student.
- DarkMatter
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
Bob Camp was also responsible for LOG! as well as many other famous Ren & Stimpy bits, from what I've heard. In many ways it sounds like Camp is the anti-John K in the sense he seems like a really sweet guy and people actually like working for him, unlike John K who is a whiny little shitheel that makes everyone working under him feel miserable. I've also heard Billy West, voice of Stimpy (and later voice of Ren after John was fired) hated John K.
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
Nickelodeon took down John K's portrait in the Hall of Creators. They also took down Chris Savino's after he got fired.
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
I remember, aaages ago, reading some Web page with a ginormous history of Spumco and John K's firing from a very pro-John K perspective, so it's kind of wild to me hearing that precisely the opposite might've been true.DarkMatter wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:41 amBob Camp was also responsible for LOG! as well as many other famous Ren & Stimpy bits, from what I've heard. In many ways it sounds like Camp is the anti-John K in the sense he seems like a really sweet guy and people actually like working for him, unlike John K who is a whiny little shitheel that makes everyone working under him feel miserable. I've also heard Billy West, voice of Stimpy (and later voice of Ren after John was fired) hated John K.
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I think I know what you're talking about. Like I stated earlier, John K. really did run a cult, especially after his firing.SlateSlabrock wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:39 pmI remember, aaages ago, reading some Web page with a ginormous history of Spumco and John K's firing from a very pro-John K perspective, so it's kind of wild to me hearing that precisely the opposite might've been true.
I'm honestly kinda surprised his loyalists aren't coming out to defend him. I guess this is something even they wouldn't touch.
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There are people defending him out there, and people acting like the article is fake because they hate buzzfeed. Luckily those are few and far between, and are getting shot down by other people pretty quick.
There's a reason this article took so long to come out in spite of the abuse taking place years ago. Had this article come out a decade ago, people would be defending this asshole a bunch more. People are a little more socially aware these days, probably helped by the internet letting minorities group together.
That all being said, there wasn't really anything these women could do to destroy his career considering he was doing it to himself over the years by never meeting deadlines and acting like everyone was an idiot for not doing exactly what he wanted.
There's a reason this article took so long to come out in spite of the abuse taking place years ago. Had this article come out a decade ago, people would be defending this asshole a bunch more. People are a little more socially aware these days, probably helped by the internet letting minorities group together.
That all being said, there wasn't really anything these women could do to destroy his career considering he was doing it to himself over the years by never meeting deadlines and acting like everyone was an idiot for not doing exactly what he wanted.
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I'm starting to see posts from ex-colleagues of John K. (some of whom knew him since the 1970s) in light of this. I won't share everything they said, but they do explain and write about the dangers of the messiah complex and charisma that was surrounding him (one former R&S artist called Spumco the "John K House of Worship").
Something I noticed about John K., even years back, is how he was big on being a tough manly man. If you ever see interviews with him, especially after he lost his own show, he always tries to present himself as a macho man, with lots and lots of casual misogyny thrown around, such as his obsession at making cartoons "FOR MENNNN!", or talking about how cartoons these days are written by "dykes" (yes, seriously, he said that).
John K. is a living example of Toxic Masculinity taken to the horrible extreme.
Something I noticed about John K., even years back, is how he was big on being a tough manly man. If you ever see interviews with him, especially after he lost his own show, he always tries to present himself as a macho man, with lots and lots of casual misogyny thrown around, such as his obsession at making cartoons "FOR MENNNN!", or talking about how cartoons these days are written by "dykes" (yes, seriously, he said that).
John K. is a living example of Toxic Masculinity taken to the horrible extreme.
- minty
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
Yeah for sure. I mean, there are plenty of artists who draw many men and sexy women without being total creeps.
And there was a definite pattern of blaming anyone else when there was a problem.
I've actually followed Katie Rice's work for years and it's all good stuff. It makes me mad that this happened to her though. I don't remember being this annoyed by a news article for a long time.
And there was a definite pattern of blaming anyone else when there was a problem.
I've actually followed Katie Rice's work for years and it's all good stuff. It makes me mad that this happened to her though. I don't remember being this annoyed by a news article for a long time.
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
John K also strikes me as kind of a hack that let the success of Ren & Stimpy go to his head. Outside of Ren & Stimpy did anyone give a shit about anything else he made? No on talks about or even remembers The Ripping Friends (I even forgot it aired again on adult swim until looking it up) and everyone hated Adult Party Cartoon because of how far it went to be edgy and distance itself from the Nick-era Ren & Stimpy.
- Mr. Big
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As far as my own John K. story, I have this. Few years back, he started following me on Twitter for whatever reason.
I mentioned this on my Facebook feed, prompting someone to joke "Hope you don't have a younger sister."
I mentioned this on my Facebook feed, prompting someone to joke "Hope you don't have a younger sister."
- minty
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
NY Times made a bit of a follow up article to the buzzfeed one.
It's not quite as graphic as the buzzfeed but it's bit of a disturbing read.
Interesting things to note:
1) That jackass tried to pit the two women against each other but they manged to form a friendship after all.
2) Robin Byrd couldn't bring herself to draw things for years because of the bad association, but she's managing to do so now.
I really hope this means they can put things behind them the best they can. A lot of female artists have been posting various creepy stuff John K. did over the years. I hope he never gets work again.
It's not quite as graphic as the buzzfeed but it's bit of a disturbing read.
Interesting things to note:
1) That jackass tried to pit the two women against each other but they manged to form a friendship after all.
2) Robin Byrd couldn't bring herself to draw things for years because of the bad association, but she's managing to do so now.
I really hope this means they can put things behind them the best they can. A lot of female artists have been posting various creepy stuff John K. did over the years. I hope he never gets work again.
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Yeah, Robyn's been active on Twitter after the Buzzfeed article came out.
In case anyone's wondering, oh hell yeah did John had enablers. I especially remember Worth and Fontanelli. They were known to pop in on animation forums and blogs and defend John K. whenever somebody made a comment that was remotely critical of him, saying he's god among animation while the person critical of him is a worthless hack. Fontanelli once trashed me on John's blog because I defended the Dilbert cartoon on Cartoon Brew (which is hilarious in hindsight, given Scott Adams' alt-right downturn). Those guys are major bullies in the animation industry.
Worth is still working in animation, btw, at Frederator. Fontanelli and Fitzgerald seemingly disappeared, even before the news broke.
In case anyone's wondering, oh hell yeah did John had enablers. I especially remember Worth and Fontanelli. They were known to pop in on animation forums and blogs and defend John K. whenever somebody made a comment that was remotely critical of him, saying he's god among animation while the person critical of him is a worthless hack. Fontanelli once trashed me on John's blog because I defended the Dilbert cartoon on Cartoon Brew (which is hilarious in hindsight, given Scott Adams' alt-right downturn). Those guys are major bullies in the animation industry.
Worth is still working in animation, btw, at Frederator. Fontanelli and Fitzgerald seemingly disappeared, even before the news broke.
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Madeline
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
It doesn’t surprise me that all those dudes were enabling Kricfalusi. All of them should be ashamed of themselves.
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Relevant to this in the broader sense: Molly Ringwald discusses movies of her youth in light of #MeToo. Pretty good read.
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Madeline
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That was an excellent read. I’ve found myself thinking similar things as Ringwald in regards to works I grew up loving and that meant a lot to me, but then I don’t have the added complication of having had anything to do with their creation. The great thing about people is that we’re so messy and complicated, but that’s also frequently the bad thing about people as well. It’s definitely much better to have open conversations about these issues than not, I think.Perrydotto wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:13 pmRelevant to this in the broader sense: Molly Ringwald discusses movies of her youth in light of #MeToo. Pretty good read.
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There are at least 19 women whom John K. have targeted over the years. 9 of them were underage at the time
One ex-Spumco employee commented that John liked to hire younger artists to work on his shows, most likely because they were easier to manipulate than seasoned veterans. The guy's a psychopath.
The one from 2017 was because John was trying to "recruit" a new studio in Miami that he was involved in, which turns out he doesn't even own. As soon as the news came out, he was immediately fired, with the studio moving on without him.
One ex-Spumco employee commented that John liked to hire younger artists to work on his shows, most likely because they were easier to manipulate than seasoned veterans. The guy's a psychopath.
The one from 2017 was because John was trying to "recruit" a new studio in Miami that he was involved in, which turns out he doesn't even own. As soon as the news came out, he was immediately fired, with the studio moving on without him.
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I know it's a bit off topic but I'm getting tired of people being smug about not liking Ren and Stimpy in the first place. Actual people suffered because of this asshole, you don't need your disliking of a cat and dog cartoon justified. I've never been a fan of Animaniacs, but it doesn't mean I hope people who worked on it were abusive because I didn't like a cartoon.
I don't know, it seems petty. And I'm not a big fan or Ren and Stimpy or anything.
I don't know, it seems petty. And I'm not a big fan or Ren and Stimpy or anything.
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It's always kinda fucked up when people try to deal with this sorta situation by feeding their egos about something. This is not something to be proud of, especially not when it's not about whether or not you liked a cartoon, and much more about the treatment of real human beings who worked on it.
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Comic book writer Gerard Jones to be sentenced after pleading guilty for possession of child porn.
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Allison Mack, an actress on "Smallville", was arrested for her role in a sex trafficking cult.
This is messed up“As alleged in the indictment, Allison Mack recruited women to join what was purported to be a female mentorship group that was, in fact, created and led by Keith Raniere,” United States Attorney Richard P. Donoghue said in a statement. “The victims were then exploited, both sexually and for their labor, to the defendants’ benefit."
According to the U.S. Attorney’s Office, over the past two decades Raniere established a series of purported self-help programs under the name NXIVM, based in Albany, New York, with centers in the United States, Mexico, Canada and South America. Mack and other cult "masters" allegedly recruited slaves by telling them they were joining a "women-only organization that would empower them and eradicate purported weaknesses that the NXIVM curriculum taught were common in women."
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Re: Everyone in Hollywood is a sex offender
Okay, wow. That's terrible.