S02E04: Luna Eclipsed

[kefkafloyd]

Guys.

Starswirl the bearded.
father of the amniomorphic spell.
amnio=bowl.
morphic=morph
a bearded wizard that shapes bowls
a hairy potter

I was trying to figure this out all weekend. Well played writers, indeed.

Looks to me like she's asking her past not to gobble her up.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to get across. The entire episode's a big misunderstanding. Luna's basically back to square one after her banishment. She still has her same hangup as before she became Nightmare Moon. She feels as if others don't appreciate her, or that she's unloved. Except instead of trying to take over the world, she's trying to make some friends instead, and it fails horribly because the preconceptions of the other ponies get in the way. It doesn't help that she inadvertently gives them more ammunition, either.

It's not a simple story, and Headless can probably write better :words: about it than I could, but trying to get out of the shadow of your past is not easy, and in retrospect Luna couldn't just walk into town and expect people to love her, even though she thought they would.

[synthorangeLook at me, I'ma talking butt!]

Who's a shouty pony? Who is? You is! Nightmare Moon!

[SlateSlabrock]

Luna's body just seems kind of strange in some views, am I the only one who thinks so? I think it's mostly her legs.

Having Luna in the statue's shadow was already powerful enough, but I completely missed the bit with the candy.

Don't feel bad; it was underneath the Hub logo.

[kefkafloyd]

Don't feel bad; it was underneath the Hub logo.

Watermarks! Yes, that explains it perfectly why I didn't see it until I watched the watermark-less copy.

[Headless Horse]

Guys.

Starswirl the bearded.
father of the amniomorphic spell.
amnio=bowl.
morphic=morph
a bearded wizard that shapes bowls
a hairy potter

A big part of me looks at this and thinks "no fucking way. No way is this for real. This is the very definition of a stretch."

But then another part looks at that Luna/statue/candy thing and thinks I don't know what we can't put past these people anymore.



(Working backwards, wouldn't they have used "amphora" or something if they were trying to evoke "potter"?)




E: Also I wanted to echo this:

I think my favourite part was
"IT WAS THOU WHO TOOK AWAY OUR DARK POWERS!"
"...and that was a good thing... right?"
"BUT OF COURSE. WE COULD NOT BE HAPPIER. IS THAT NOT CLEAR?!"

A hallmark of the writing of this show is how every time you as an audience member think "But hey wait, what about..." --they immediately hit you with dialogue that shows they're thinking exactly the same thing you are, they all brainstormed it thoroughly, they came up with an answer, and they're going to telegraph it right away to you with a few super-efficient words. My canonical example is how AJ hesitates to come into the library during the lightning storm, but Twilight just casually mentions her lightning rod and they go merrily on with the story. Another is at the Gala, when you start saying to yourself "Uh, AJ, it's great that you think you can sell lots of apple stuff, but wouldn't an event like this be catered? And Pinkie, I'm pretty sure this kind of party doesn't have Pin the Tail on the Pony." ...but then it turns out that those aren't plot holes, those are the plot.

And here we get an earful of it again. Ever since Luna reappears we've been thinking "Um, so what about Nightmare Moon? Is Luna aware of what she did as NMM? Does she regret it? Does she hold a grudge against Twilight and the others for bringing her back? Can something happen that might trigger her going NMM again?"

And then the above lines happen, where Twilight is basically asking those exact questions right from the h-- um, the source. And they deliver an answer, one that covers all the necessary ground, and does it in a funny and character-building way that sets up the rest of the "shouting" plot, as well as putting the later "NMN is cancelled!" and "NMM with fake vampire teeth" scenes in a context where we know the stakes are possibly in fact that high. Because they're thinking about this every bit as hard as we are, and they're not taking anything off the table just to spare kids some extra processing.

Also I love Luna's leg movements and postures during her delivery there. Speaking of, on a totally different note, did you guys notice how the dance steps in the town square are different again now? They're doing a two-hop kind of thing. I think every time they've had ponies dancing in this show they've animated it differently.

:allthesmiliesatonce:

[ArtificerGoes well with All Natural Milk Naturally Flavored with Natural Flavors.]

THE REVELATIONS. HNNNNNNG.

That.......that was amazing. Nice catch.

[Westy543]

Oh man. Somebody posted this on reddit; go throw them an upvote if you have an account. They posted this using Luna emoticons and hover alt-text, so hence the voice.

So you want to make me say things in your posts and fics and fanart! Great! I love when people give me attention!

BUT LO WHEN WE SEE THOU USEST NOT RIGHT AND PROPER--I'm sorry. There are rules to employing the T-V distinction in English and I don't like it when it looks like I don't know them!

'Thou' is a subject, like 'he.' 'Thee' is an object like 'him.' 'Thy' and 'Thine' are possessives, like 'his.' Basically you usually use 'thy' when you would say 'my' and 'thine' when you would say 'mine.' For example: thy books are thine. Also you can use 'thine' before a vowel, like 'thine/mine eyes,' and there are other rules, but we're getting complicated here.

A simple present verb, like 'go,' 'walk,' and 'drive,' has the ending -st or -est after 'thou.' Thou goest, walkest, and drivest. You do not use -st for verbs that have other inflectional suffixes like -ed or -ing. You use the -eth ending, as in 'runneth,' whenever you would use the -s ending in modern English. He walks? He walketh. I walk? I walk. I and you do not 'walketh', just as I and you do not 'walks.'

And be careful when using 'thou.' It is a familiar term, used with close friends, family members, and social subordinates. I may call you 'thou.' You may call your friend 'thou.' You may call a child you meet on the street 'thou.' But you calling me 'thou' would be a shocking breach of protocol, like walking up to me and kissing me on the cheek to say hello.

There are other rules to using them too; this is simplified. But these are the most important ones to follow. Use them and you'll make me sound much more like me!

[Headless Horse]

That's awesome. Now if only we could trust fanfic writers to grasp stuff like "y'all is for referring to multiple people".

[kefkafloyd]

See, even people in the south will disagree about that. There's y'all and there's all y'all. I'm a pretty smart guy and I still can't wrap my head around the proper usage. Doesn't help that there's regional distinctions.

[numsOic]

Oh man. Somebody posted this on reddit; go throw them an upvote if you have an account. They posted this using Luna emoticons and hover alt-text, so hence the voice.

:quote:

As a native Spanish speaker and someone with an interest in linguistics and a minimal knowledge of literature, all of this seems blindingly obvious and intuitive to me. Personally, this should be a basic requirement for quality writing, not some super arcane tidbit for nerds, and I was very glad to discover they used it correctly in the show when they did.

See, even people in the south will disagree about that. There's y'all and there's all y'all. I'm a pretty smart guy and I still can't wrap my head around the proper usage. Doesn't help that there's regional distinctions.

It varies, sure, but:

There are currently four generally recognized properties that "y'all" follows:
1. A replacement for the plural of you.
2. An associative plural, including individuals associated but not present with the singular addressee.
3. An institutional plural addressed to one person representing a group.
4. A form used in direct address in certain contexts (e.g., partings, greetings, invitations, and vocatives)

Even advocates for singular y'all recognize that the vast majority of uses are plural. Furthermore,

While "y'all" is actually a contraction of "you all," it is most commonly used as a plural form of "you." "All y'all," "all of y'all," or "alls y'all" clarifies that the entire group is meant, rather than an undefined subset thereof. Cf. "we" vs. "we all," or "they" vs. "they all."

These seem to be the majority uses for both.

[FemtoYour hearts desire is to be told your destiny through your cutie mark. The destiny is that there is no destiny.]

That's awesome. Now if only we could trust fanfic writers to grasp stuff like "y'all is for referring to multiple people".

Oddly enough, not the case. Y'all has mutated and become singular over time, and it's not uncommon to hear things like "all y'all" and "both y'all" in the south. :myconnectioniscrappyrightnowsopretendthisisprofessorspike:

e: whelp, beaten like a dead tree. Literacy is important, y'all.

[HollowThis place needs a miracle.]

And I actually think Tabitha didn't really go into Rarity mode at all.

There was a distinct line of dialogue (of course I don't know the exact time or anything, I just watch the show I don't nerd out) when she sounded exactly like Rarity, yeah.

And have you not been paying attention to RD? She can be a huge bitch when she wants to be. I find her prankster streak rather endearing here, especially since Luna pays her back for it.

Of course I have been "paying attention", that's why I said I wish they would write her character better. Her personality is too all over the place, one episode she's helpful, next episode she's irritating and treating the exact same ponies like dirt. It's weird. I guess I'm trying to say that I wish they would stop going to Rainbow to be the bitch of the episode, let's have some other pony do it and have Rainbow be less of a...one trick pony.

She seems to be the only main pony that hasn't been fleshed out.

[Headless Horse]

It doesn't help that the show itself does the singular "y'all" thing occasionally (i.e. LBYS). I guess what really bugs me more than that is when fanfic writers just throw "y'all" in as a search-replace for every single occurrence of "you". I know that's not how it works. Southerners/Westerners are perfectly capable of using "you" in places where it's clearly appropriate.

There was a distinct line of dialogue (of course I don't know the exact time or anything, I just watch the show I don't nerd out) when she sounded exactly like Rarity, yeah.

There were a couple of lines I noticed:

"Very well then. Be that way! We won't even bother with the traditional royal farewell!"

"Yes. I can tell. By all the adoring shrieks of the children as they run away."



Edit: Now I want to know what the "traditional royal farewell" is. I figure maybe BREATHING FIRE OVER THE CROWD (it is a token of affection and gratitude)

[Star Platinum]

This episode was pretty good, not as good as the other S2 episodes, but above average. The biggest problems were the whole double candy offering, a bit of retconning (why didn't anyone but Twilight recognize Nightmare Moon back in the pilot?), and Pip was only slightly less annoying than Snips & Snails.

On the positive side, Luna's character was handled perfectly, and I liked how the conflict wasn't something super serious like "If we won't become friends with Luna, she'll become Nightmare Moon again!", but rather about saving the holiday. I wanted to be a zombie next year!

All the small comedy bits with the main cast were great; Rainbow being a jerk, Fluttershy being terrified of Luna, and Pinkie's chicken antics. The lack of Rarity was a little disappointing, but understandable considering how much stuff they had to cram into the episode.

I really hope that Luna will appear fairly regularly, she should be a great foil to the more laid-back and "normal" Celestia. I like how they gave her the flowing mane ( ) and made her a bit taller, she seems more like Celestia's equal now.

[Lazy]

Edit: Now I want to know what the "traditional royal farewell" is. I figure maybe BREATHING FIRE OVER THE CROWD (it is a token of affection and gratitude)

The royal subjects all form a walkway with their bodies for the Princesses to walk out on in their gilded hooves, army ant style.

[Dong Strongly]

I bet the traditional royal farewell is actually Luna eating a pony. Whole. It would be more awkward if she did that and she was probably cognizant of this.

[CuckooMy only regret is that I have Ponitis]

(why didn't anyone but Twilight recognize Nightmare Moon back in the pilot?)

I'm guessing it's because she looked a good bit different than the pilot's de-powered Luna. Granted it should still be obvious because there aren't that many tall, uber-powerful Alicorn goddesses running around but

It seems like everyone did recognize her as Nightmare Moon, at least initially. Considering her darker pelt, sparkly mane, and new height, that does make sense.

[IsaakEquus Ludens :3]

Guys.

Starswirl the bearded.
father of the amniomorphic spell.
amnio=bowl.
morphic=morph
a bearded wizard that shapes bowls
a hairy potter

Ho
Ly
Shit

[NotAnotherBGPonyHermit crab and Emptier of Fridges]

Guys.

Starswirl the bearded.
father of the amniomorphic spell.
amnio=bowl.
morphic=morph
a bearded wizard that shapes bowls
a hairy potter

[The great MPinke Torte das Pony.---]

Guys.

Starswirl the bearded.
father of the amniomorphic spell.
amnio=bowl.
morphic=morph
a bearded wizard that shapes bowls
a hairy potter

Hot damn. I wanna say that's reaching, but why else would he be the father of the amniomorphic spell.

Those writers man.

[kefkafloyd]

It seems like everyone did recognize her as Nightmare Moon, at least initially. Considering her darker pelt, sparkly mane, and new height, that does make sense.

Luna was taller back then, too - not as big as Celestia, but inbetween her and the normal ponies.





What changed was her hair and colors.

On the subject of her height, Luna's about a whole head taller than the girls, whereas Celestia's more like two heads taller.

[NotAnotherBGPonyHermit crab and Emptier of Fridges]

Oh hey whitenoise, your revelation's going in EqD's nightly roundup. I did give you credit for it so we'll see if they decide to mention that it's from you and this board.

[Whitenoise PosterI am going to eat this entire oak tree because I am a powerful wizard!]

That's perfect. Especially because I stole it from some anon on ponychan.

[NotAnotherBGPonyHermit crab and Emptier of Fridges]

That's perfect. Especially because I stole it from some anon on ponychan.

hurr hurr

We'll see if that anon says anything, eh

[Pocketis she just gonna go booty booty]

Oh man. Somebody posted this on reddit; go throw them an upvote if you have an account. They posted this using Luna emoticons and hover alt-text, so hence the voice.

Wow. I grew up going to a church that still used the King James Bible and sang hymns, so I ended up absorbing that stuff automatically and tend to be the pedant who points out when other people are misusing the words... but even I never caught on about the proper use of "-est"! This show is still smarter than I am.

[thatbastardkenWant it, Need it]

I just picked up a difference in the models of Celestia and Luna - Celestia has wings like a swan, Luna's wings look more like owl wings. What a nice little detail.

[GlaziusHe finds himself through the martial arts discipline of Nokando, which he says hardens the body and turns the mind inward.]

I just picked up a difference in the models of Celestia and Luna - Celestia has wings like a swan, Luna's wings look more like owl wings. What a nice little detail.

So basically Luna's wings are for gliding in behind somebody whisper-quiet and Celestia's wings are for breaking some fool's face?

[fensterawethome~!]

Guys.

Starswirl the bearded.
father of the amniomorphic spell.
amnio=bowl.
morphic=morph
a bearded wizard that shapes bowls
a hairy potter

Huh? I'm not seeing the connection of amnio with bowl. The most general modern use of amnio, as far as I knew and as far as a google showed me, was referring to the Amnion and some of its related terminology, and as far as I can see from googling Amni gives me this result that relates the meaning to between rivers and several other medical terminology databases, which makes sense considering that is where the actual name for the Amnion came from (at least that's what it seems to be).



I really want your definition to be right because I don't want to think about the implications about the medical use of amnio applied to this spell in the ponyverse.

Post about Ye Olde English

Aren't all High Schools supposed to make kids read some Shakespearean plays/sonnets? I dunno, this has always seemed obvious to me.

[SlateSlabrock]

"Yes. I can tell. By all the adoring shrieks of the children as they run away."

This line actually sounded to me like it had a bit of Southern drawl attached. Rarijackluna.

[RagnarWhat's older? Unicorns, or stars?]

So basically Luna's wings are for gliding in behind somebody whisper-quiet and Celestia's wings are for breaking some fool's face?

I guess that would make Celestia a student of Wing Chun. Luna would make the worst owl ever, though, for real. BUT SOFT--A MOUSE! WE SHALL SWOOP DOWN UPON IT! NO, STOP, MOUSE!! PRAY DESIST THY FLIGHT AND okay, it fled. Oh my god we are so hungry.

[Dead Ponyrapid rapid rapid rapid rapid Individuals]

So basically Luna's wings are for gliding in behind somebody whisper-quiet and Celestia's wings are for breaking some fool's face?

Celestia's wings exist solely for the purpose of discussing how pretty they are.

[WylieCIDER CIDER CIDER]

Huh? I'm not seeing the connection of amnio with bowl. The most general modern use of amnio, as far as I knew and as far as a google showed me, was referring to the Amnion and some of its related terminology, and as far as I can see from googling Amni gives me this result that relates the meaning to between rivers and several other medical terminology databases, which makes sense considering that is where the actual name for the Amnion came from (at least that's what it seems to be).



I really want your definition to be right because I don't want to think about the implications about the medical use of amnio applied to this spell in the ponyverse.

Upon research, I don't see the "amnio=bowl" thing either. If anything, "amniomorphic" might be a manufactured word relating to changing eggs, as "amniotes" are animals that lay eggs (mammals, too, but most mammals are placental amniotes- their "egg" is the amniotic sac that ruptures before birth). Not to get too about things, but there you go.

I think Twilight's entrance exam might have been an amniomorphic spell, if you look at it this way. And it would make sense that she would have read up on amniomorphic spells after the fact, I guess.

[Dong Strongly]

1660s, Modern Latin, from Gk. amnion "membrane around a fetus," said to be originally "bowl in which the blood of victims was caught" [Liddell & Scott], which is variously said to be of unknown origin, from ame "bucket," or a dim. of amnos "lamb."

I guess a bucket is a kind of bowl, but you know you can't really trust the Internet, especially when it comes to bowls. I'll just trust Whitenoise on this, like I do with everything he says.

[Headless Horse]

I'll say again in not-small text, if they were really trying to come up with a word that would evoke "potter", wouldn't they use something like "amphora"? Because if you're already doing one level of indirection (i.e. Greek), it's way too obscure to add another (i.e. having to interpret a word in a secondary or unusual way, like treating "bowl" as "pot").



E: What I'm saying is we've all been trolled by an anon on ponychan. GET HIM

[HuffyTheMagicDragonboop]

After doing some Googling, I'm starting to think "amniomorphic spell" actually means a spell to turn someone into a baby sheep.

The "bowl" translation seems to come from a bowl used to catch the blood of a sacrificial lamb (here's one source), which got its name from the word "amnios," which is a diminutive form of the Greek "amnos" meaning "sheep." Most dictionaries I've found cite the origin of the word "amnion" as from the Greek word for sheep, amnos.

Which leads me to conclude that our bearded wizard pony invented the spell "Polymorph (sheep)." But then, I took Latin, not Greek, so I could be all wrong.

it is a mystery

[ozonethe ride never ends]

After doing some Googling, I'm starting to think "amniomorphic spell" actually means a spell to turn someone into a baby sheep.

Ah, so it could be a Warcraft reference then. The plot thickens...

Or it could also just be DHX making-up a smart-sounding word to make Twilight sound more spergy.

[RagnarWhat's older? Unicorns, or stars?]

It'd be cool to get some official demystification on this.

Before you guys finish ruining everything.

[WylieCIDER CIDER CIDER]

I'm sure we could come up with three or four additional more-or-less terrifying possibilities for you if you just let us work for a few minutes.

Which could -also- be the point. How deep does the rabbit hole go here?

[Blarghalt]

As far as Angel can dig.

[Dead Ponyrapid rapid rapid rapid rapid Individuals]

She still has her same hangup as before she became Nightmare Moon. She feels as if others don't appreciate her, or that she's unloved.

It's more than that now. First, she was just not as liked as Celestia. Luna has to come to terms with her demonization as Nightmare Moon.

Also I like that Zecora is now the resident purveyor of horror stories about other ponies, considering she was an exile, herself.
And Pinkie is still as much of a segregationist as ever, but its okay! Obviously Luna won't actually eat you, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't run in fear from her!

Edit:

It'd be cool to get some official demystification on this.

Before you guys finish ruining everything.

It's magic. They aren't going to explain shit.

More Edits:

So, while I'm searching the episode for Nightmare Night swag, I notice

:\