Lootboxes are bad and silly

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Perrydotto
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Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Perrydotto (?) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:32 am

At this point there is so much garbage about lootboxes happening that I might as well make a thread for it so people can yell about it without clogging other threads
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Perrydotto (?) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:33 am

Most recent in the Battlefront 2 lootbox garbage fire: EA supposedly didn't wanna focus on cosmetics versus pay-to-win elements because they were worried about Star Wars canon

Apparently "nobody wants a pink Darth Vader"

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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Gloomy Rube (?) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:42 pm

I hear that Hawaii is planning to ban lootboxes so things are starting to go downhill for the ol' lootbox brigade
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Perrydotto (?) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:46 pm

Gloomy Rube wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:42 pm
I hear that Hawaii is planning to ban lootboxes so things are starting to go downhill for the ol' lootbox brigade
State legislators call EA’s game a 'Star Wars-themed online casino' preying on kids, vow action (careful, autoplay video attached)
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Adiwan (?) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:54 pm

This and many other reasons (DRM, DLC, pricing) are the reason why I don't buy new games anymore, especially not from triple-A developers.
Whenever I buy a game I expect to own it and own a complete package that doesn't feel like it was thrown out early out of the development and with a high potential of struggling with bugs and lack of content.
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by RudeCyrus (?) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:09 pm

At this point, game publishers have become so greedy it's become a chore to play games. There needs to be a radical change.

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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Gloomy Rube (?) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:11 pm

Luckily, if this legislature manages to pass (It totally might, it's a bipartisan thing since it's about gambling) we might see some changes since they'll lose lots of sales from it in certain states, more if it picks up traction and spreads.
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Fizzbuzz (?) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:24 pm

Gloomy Rube wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:11 pm
Luckily, if this legislature manages to pass (It totally might, it's a bipartisan thing since it's about gambling) we might see some changes since they'll lose lots of sales from it in certain states, more if it picks up traction and spreads.
It'd need to spread to more states than Hawaii, unfortunately. We'd need it to get to the federal level before AAA publishers would really start quaking in their boots, but considering how corporatist our current Congress is (just look at the Republican tax bill that's making the rounds now), I doubt they'd ever take action over loot crates.
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Dragoness (?) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:05 pm

"It's a trap"

:gotcha:
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Venusy (?) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:26 pm

I think there's a few states who have already said that they will introduce similar legislation if Hawaii passes theirs.

Still, the more important legislation to watch is probably Belgium, since they're looking to ban lootboxes across the EU - which definitely will make publishers change behaviour. Unless the draw is so great that they'll do one monetization model in the EU and a completely different one elsewhere.

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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by ixnay (?) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:14 pm

Perrydotto wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:33 am
Most recent in the Battlefront 2 lootbox garbage fire: EA supposedly didn't wanna focus on cosmetics versus pay-to-win elements because they were worried about Star Wars canon

Apparently "nobody wants a pink Darth Vader”
The rumor I heard was that they floated cosmetic loot boxes but Disney said “no you can’t do that”

If that was the case I certainly don’t envy the designers and managers put in a position of “come up with a system that will hit these revenue targets, given that we aren’t selling a season pass and you can’t do cosmetic loot boxes”

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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Angel Beat (?) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:19 pm

How is Rey running around Episode 1 era Theed canon again? :ponder:
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Pocket (?) » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:58 pm

All it takes is one or two states, because there's no way a company is going to go to the trouble of keeping tabs on what states their players are in and tailoring their experience accordingly. It's not as simple as just adding an "Offer void in Nebraska" disclaimer. Dealing with different countries is enough of a hassle already, but at least platforms are already set up to do it.

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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Perrydotto (?) » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:16 am

ixnay wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:14 pm
The rumor I heard was that they floated cosmetic loot boxes but Disney said “no you can’t do that”

If that was the case I certainly don’t envy the designers and managers put in a position of “come up with a system that will hit these revenue targets, given that we aren’t selling a season pass and you can’t do cosmetic loot boxes”
That would still be a curious change, since the previous EA Battlefront did have cosmetic items that weren't even all that outrageous or lore-breaking.
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Perrydotto (?) » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:28 am

We can always go and dig this hole deeper
Every single technique, ability, fighter, and stat roll, is entirely acquired and upgraded through the loot box system. A brand-new player fresh out of the tutorials, can dump $1,000 into the game, acquire the rarest loot drops and immediately jump into online competition with a beastly custom fighter that has an exceedingly large health pool, vastly improved endurance, and substantially stronger strikes than the average player who simply pays the $60 price of admission.
Furthermore, UFC 3’s Ultimate Team mode has added the ability for players to unlock real fighters and use them as part of their group online. Yet again this system Is bogged down by the implications of microtransactions as the rarer fighters have the higher base-level statistics and will outright perform better.
Microtransactions are also the only means of acquiring perks and boosts. Perks are powerful abilities that can be equipped for a small number of fights before expiring. They can range from a low-level stamina improvement during a certain phase, whether that be striking, grappling or ground game, to a significant hit point increase during pivotal health events, wherein your opponent has damaged you enough to potentially end the fight. Boosts on the other hand are similarly temporary enhancements that offer endurance boosts and durability bonuses. It is clear to see that in combination with technique enhancements and overall stat increases, EA has taken every single aspect of genuine competition and buried it.
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Aria Genisi (?) » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:15 am

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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Perrydotto (?) » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:35 am

Haha oh god
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Auxiliatrix (?) » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:18 pm

I'm kind of glad this issue is blowing up now because I've been sick of loot boxes for quite a while. We've had issues with micro-transactions before, but it feels like this EA game specifically might be the straw that broke the camel's back.

I'm not surprised the game was by EA, though. :-P
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Pocket (?) » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:23 pm

Hey guess what somebody just found. There's a lootbox UI built into Minecraft Bedrock Edition. It's for servers to use, so Microsoft doesn't get money from it, but it's there and it's sanctioned by the same EULA that explicitly forbade servers from running other shady money-making schemes.

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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Fizzbuzz (?) » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:39 pm

Who would want to buy crates in Minecraft? It's not like you can take items from server to server, so unless most people play on servers far bigger and far less ephemeral than the ones I've played on in the past, I'm not sure where the appeal is in buying special cosmetic items (or worse).
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Quanta (?) » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:41 pm

I like how an april fools' joke that Mojang did one time is now on its way to becoming an objective reality.
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Pocket (?) » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:57 pm

Fizzbuzz wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:39 pm
Who would want to buy crates in Minecraft? It's not like you can take items from server to server, so unless most people play on servers far bigger and far less ephemeral than the ones I've played on in the past, I'm not sure where the appeal is in buying special cosmetic items (or worse).
It's a whole different game now. As with most online games, gone are the days when people seek out servers populated—if not run—by people they already know. Now there's a list of the most popular Realms servers right in the game, most likely all of them "official partners" of Mojang (whatever that means), and people just pick one and jump in. Or they find one they heard about from the popular YouTuber du jour. Nobody really knows anyone else, and status is everything. Oh, and the average player is like ten years old.

Or so I hear.

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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by SlateSlabrock (?) » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:01 am

am I doing this right


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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by SlateSlabrock (?) » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:04 am

Quanta wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:41 pm
I like how an april fools' joke that Mojang did one time is now on its way to becoming an objective reality.
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Fizzbuzz (?) » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:26 am

Pocket wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:57 pm
It's a whole different game now. As with most online games, gone are the days when people seek out servers populated—if not run—by people they already know. Now there's a list of the most popular Realms servers right in the game, most likely all of them "official partners" of Mojang (whatever that means), and people just pick one and jump in. Or they find one they heard about from the popular YouTuber du jour. Nobody really knows anyone else, and status is everything. Oh, and the average player is like ten years old.

Or so I hear.
Is that what's going on in all the non-Java editions? Ugh. Microsoft and Mojang had better think long and hard about actually putting crates into Minecraft, because with Minecraft's huge population, a scandal over kids buying them would really hurt.
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Aria Genisi (?) » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:07 am

that minecraft thing sounds like a load of shit that some people entirely made up

like, looking at the pictures, it legitimately has the air of just some made up bullshit. granted, I haven't touched minecraft since the early java days, but with all the shit going on with minecraft as a brand, and how much dlc and shit they sell for it, I find it hard to believe that either a) it exists, or b) supposing this placeholder shit or whatever IS real, that it's just some bullshit idea they threw around but ultimately aren't actually going to implement, especially not after people started really getting up in arms about lootboxes now

there's just really something about it that just screams "fake" to me
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Highbrow Dash (?) » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:48 am

This is big in sport games.



Big.

EA SPORTS UFC 3 - The Single Most Egregious Implementation of Microtransactions to Date
Every single technique, ability, fighter, and stat roll, is entirely acquired and upgraded through the loot box system. A brand-new player fresh out of the tutorials, can dump $1,000 into the game, acquire the rarest loot drops and immediately jump into online competition with a beastly custom fighter that has an exceedingly large health pool, vastly improved endurance, and substantially stronger strikes than the average player who simply pays the $60 price of admission. The higher the rarity of the item, the more significant the improvement overall. Pressing the square button to throw a punch at an opponent, quite literally the simplest and most obvious mechanic in an MMA game, perfectly exemplifies the absurdity of the microtransactions in question. A base level jab will do minimal damage to online opponents, however a fighter that purchases a loot box and acquires a five-star rarity level jab, will not only have a more efficient and powerful technique in combat, but will also be treated to a host of stat increases in all regards, making their player undeniably better in every scenario.

Furthermore, UFC 3’s Ultimate Team mode has added the ability for players to unlock real fighters and use them as part of their group online. Yet again this system Is bogged down by the implications of microtransactions as the rarer fighters have the higher base-level statistics and will outright perform better.
This article is also an excellent read.

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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Pocket (?) » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:16 am

Aria Genisi wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:07 am
that minecraft thing sounds like a load of shit that some people entirely made up

like, looking at the pictures, it legitimately has the air of just some made up bullshit. granted, I haven't touched minecraft since the early java days, but with all the shit going on with minecraft as a brand, and how much dlc and shit they sell for it, I find it hard to believe that either a) it exists, or b) supposing this placeholder shit or whatever IS real, that it's just some bullshit idea they threw around but ultimately aren't actually going to implement, especially not after people started really getting up in arms about lootboxes now

there's just really something about it that just screams "fake" to me
Maybe. But I still want people to raise a fuss about it, because it would serve as a much-needed reminder to Microsoft that they need to watch their step.

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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Perrydotto (?) » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:27 am

On UFC3 and how they're likely trying to coast on the fact that sports games operate on different rules and expectations than most other AAA games


Paladins', a game I personally loathe with the force of a thousand suns, increases its card and gambling stuff, lootbox-style


And Battlefront II makes more steps towards making in-game rewards worthwhile, which is neat and all but literally wouldn't have happened if a lot of people hadn't gotten upset about the lootboxes
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Pocket (?) » Tue May 01, 2018 6:03 pm

Belgium has ruled that loot boxes that can be acquired for real money are gambling.

There's a conflict of information between what that article says (that loot boxes are therefore already illegal under Belgium's laws) and what Jim Sterling's video on the topic says (that they're not), so it sounds like a conflict between different translations from the original Dutch. Either way, this could be huge. It's not just the super-predatory games or ones aimed at minors that are guilty; Counter-Strike Global Offensive (which carries an 18+ rating in Europe) was specifically named; presumably Team Fortress 2, the game that started this whole mess, will be implicated as well if this goes anywhere.

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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Gloomy Rube (?) » Thu May 03, 2018 1:16 pm

hope you learn not to start predatory marketing trends, valve
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Logicgate (?) » Thu May 03, 2018 3:32 pm

Gloomy Rube wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 1:16 pm
hope you learn not to start predatory marketing trends, valve
hope in one hand and collect money from lootboxes in the other and see which fills up first

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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by DarkMatter (?) » Thu May 03, 2018 5:28 pm

We need more games like Dragon Ball FighterZ. The way loot boxes (or capsules as they are in the game) are handled is one of the best I've seen. They can only be bought with in-game currency and you don't need to grind hours on end to get the currency to purchase them, you get money from almost every little thing you do (sometimes just logging online gives you 100,000 zeni).

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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Pocket (?) » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:36 pm

Polygon posted an editorial in defense of Overwatch's loot system, and Jim Sterling has some words to say about it:


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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by West Filly (?) » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:43 pm

Be thankful your corporate masters aren't rinsing you HARDER!

- Polygon.
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Gloomy Rube (?) » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:11 pm

Polygon seems dumb
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Aria Genisi (?) » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:22 am

Polygon is generally fine, it's just that for some reason, they released a really shit editorial about lootboxes.
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by West Filly (?) » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:40 am

Their content is hit and miss, which is fine when the content's free.
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by PhoolCat (?) » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:20 am

Overwatch lootboxes seem fine and good - except for the weekly grind with Misery Heroes :v:

I just wish dupes gave more IGC...
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Re: Lootboxes are bad and silly

Post by Pocket (?) » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:29 pm

The latest: The UK Gambling commission has revealed that underage gambling has quadrupled in just the last two years, and specifically names lootboxes as a likely cause.

Note that the "quadrupled" figure does not even include the use of lootboxes themselves—which is gambling—because it's not yet legally classified as such in the UK. They're arguing that the proliferation of lootboxes in kids' games is essentially a gateway drug, getting them hooked on the idea of gambling to the point where they look into other kinds.

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