Current Events And Politics

Old Mare Yells At Cloud. (News, Events, Philosophy)
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Mr. Big (?) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:00 pm

Pocket wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 3:39 pm
I wonder what the hell could have prompted all this.
My guess is all those sexual harassment settlements they had to pay in the last few years played a role, at least partially.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Octavia (?) » Tue May 22, 2018 8:02 pm

Despite their politics, Fox News's headquarters is still in NYC, one of the most liberal areas in the USA, so I would imagine a lot of their employees don't agree with the politics of the company.
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Mr. Big (?) » Tue May 22, 2018 8:25 pm

News is a commodity, and it's no different with Fox News. Roger Ailes said it himself years before he died. That said, these changes do appear to be recent enough that there are long-time staffers who aren't happy about it.

There are editorial cartoonists who draws both left-wing and right-wing versions of the same cartoon in order to maximize newspaper syndication (few in the industry who noticed called them out on it, however, so it's not widely-accepted or anything, but it still happens)

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Mr. Big (?) » Tue May 29, 2018 3:09 pm

ABC cancelled the Roseanne revival after her racist tweet.

Can't say I will miss the show. :-/

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Perrydotto (?) » Tue May 29, 2018 3:21 pm

Good call on ABC's part, though they should not be surprised considering Roseanne wasn't exactly a pure being before that tweet :v:
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Mr. Big (?) » Tue May 29, 2018 3:22 pm

Given that the show was getting massive ratings, I can see why ABC was hesitant to cancel it. It just got to the point that Rosanne's toxic behavior was getting harder to ignore.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Pocket (?) » Tue May 29, 2018 7:31 pm

Hell, Roseanne was known to be an Alex Jones conspiracy nut before the revival was even greenlit—and before they had any ratings to rationalize it—so Disney is frankly still on thin ice as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Perrydotto (?) » Tue May 29, 2018 7:42 pm

Indeed, they were fully willing to gamble on a known powder keg. That's why I'm saying it was the right move, but the fact that we're in this position in the first place is nothing to be proud of. You give someone known to be a giant dickwad a job, you call them "controversial" and other fig leaf terms - Well you knew what you were getting yourself into, you are not a hero for cleaning up the mess afterwards.
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Mr. Big (?) » Tue May 29, 2018 9:49 pm

And this came out. An ABC executive joked about Roseanne's tweets during his pitch meeting to advertisers 2 weeks ago.

So yeah, it was pure pragmatism.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Pocket (?) » Wed May 30, 2018 1:09 am

Honestly, between this, Last Man Standing, their exceptionally favorable coverage of Trump's campaign (compared to NBC and CBS) and the fact that they've been buddy-buddy with Rupert Murdoch for a good long while, I honestly wonder if ABC has an agenda going on. The Escapist spent a good half decade hosting columnists and video producers with predominantly leftist views—hell, even Yahtzee criticized the sexism in a lot of games, once called Uncharted "a game for white supremacists", and railed harder against Call of Duty's neocon bullshit than anyone I know—before its founder and CEO dropped the act, fired everyone who was critical of Gamergate, and eventually went to work for Milo Yiannopoulos, so you never know with these people.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Mr. Big (?) » Wed May 30, 2018 1:15 am

These people tend to change their tune depending on whether it will work in their favor. If being left-wing will work in their favor, they'll be left-wing.

To give a vintage example, newspaper cartoonist Al Capp used to heavily feature left-wing themes in his strip "Li'l Abner", but he later became a hard-core right-winger when he realized that right-wing organizations tend to pay more for speakers.

(Given that Al Capp turned out to be a serial rapist, he was always a scumbag :-I )

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Pocket (?) » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:47 am



I really do wonder if this is less of a problem in other parts of the world, and if it's an indication that Americans are genuinely less intelligent. I've spent the last 14 years being lectured by non-Americans (mostly Europeans) about how we're a nation of idiots and how our news media in particular is proof of that. On the other hand, virtually all of their news channels are state-owned and that can lead to a host of problems as well, like BBC taking an openly pro-Brexit stance since 2016.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Bremen (?) » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:26 am

Pocket wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:47 am
I really do wonder if this is less of a problem in other parts of the world, and if it's an indication that Americans are genuinely less intelligent. I've spent the last 14 years being lectured by non-Americans (mostly Europeans) about how we're a nation of idiots and how our news media in particular is proof of that. On the other hand, virtually all of their news channels are state-owned and that can lead to a host of problems as well, like BBC taking an openly pro-Brexit stance since 2016.
I don't think it's a matter of less intelligent but less informed. It's perfectly possible to get good, in depth news coverage of politics in the US - but a lot of people find it boring. They'd prefer to hear the one sentence summary and then catch the latest celebrity gossip. A lot of people in the US probably do know about Trump's new tariffs, but few really know the details, and are instead for or against it based on whether they were already for or against Trump.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Pocket (?) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:57 pm

Some of you might remember that in 2016, Maine switched over to an Australian-style ranked ballot system. Now the governor is threatening to ignore the results of the midterm election purely because he doesn't like that system. Or more likely, because he doesn't like the results.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by West Filly (?) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:16 pm

A tale as old as voting.
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Pocket (?) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:44 pm

It really drives home how easily government can completely break down because some people refuse to do their jobs correctly and no one can really physically force them to. Like, even if the state supreme court was like "Dude, this is unconstitutional", what could they really do about it?

Respect for rule of law—and a voting population smart enough to only vote for people who have it—really is the last line of defense against tyranny. At the end of the day, we are all beholden to the honor system. Democracy continues to exist solely because those we vote for choose to keep allowing it to exist.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by SlateSlabrock (?) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:57 am

Makes sense that LePage doesn't like the voting system Maine specifically adopted because he keeps using the normal first-past-the-pole system to beat any sane opponent.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Pocket (?) » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:07 pm



Hey Perry, that expression y'all have about vomiting, how's it go in the original German? Because I think this deserves to be responded to in the language of an actual civilized country.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by West Filly (?) » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:45 pm

I'm not conding Lewandoski's view but the context here is that he believes the parent is responsible for the separation because she chose to enter a country which has this policy. He's not saying "womp womp she has Down Syndrome" he's saying "Someone entered the country illegally and got caught - womp womp." I strongly disagree with the policy of separating families as America has done, but I don't think having a child with a medical condition makes you immune to criticism on the basis of your having committed a crime, whether or not I believe it should be a crime to begin with.

Basically there's no discussion, just two people shouting from completely different frames of reference that don't touch one another at all. One frame is the point that if you choose to enter a country with this policy illegally then you take the risk of this policy being enacted against your family. The other frame is an attempt to get someone with the first frame of reference to empathise with the horrors of getting separated from the child, which isn't going to work because the first frame of reference places all of the responsibility on the parent where the second is placing it on the state.
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Perrydotto (?) » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:56 pm

Pocket wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:07 pm
Hey Perry, that expression y'all have about vomiting, how's it go in the original German? Because I think this deserves to be responded to in the language of an actual civilized country.
The phrase is "Ich kann nicht so viel essen wie ich kotzen möchte", meaning "I can't eat as much as I want to vomit".

I think that phrase is very apt regarding the entirety of this fucked up family seperation policy.
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by West Filly (?) » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:02 am

Basically there's no common ground between the left and right at all. The right believes in individual responsibility and thinks it's your fault if you enter America illegally with a child while this is going on. Their argument is that you should know this is happening and that you therefore accept the risk. The left believes the state has a responsibility to not separate families. You can't convince someone who will place the guilt on the parent that the state is guilty of anything even if there's logical errors in the reasoning.

The fact the kid has down syndrome is irrelevant and IMO is kind of cheap as a heartstrings tactic. The argument isn't wrong, and it is truly abhorrent to imagine the scene of a vulnerable child being separated from a parent, it's just a very ineffective argument in this context because the opposition believes the parent is responsible for anything which happens here.
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Pocket (?) » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:22 am

I had a thought, just now. What if there were a worldwide boycott on America's #1 export—entertainment media. I've always been a little uncomfortable with other countries watching so many American movies and TV shows instead of locally-produced content, and there's never been a better time or excuse to change that.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by West Filly (?) » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:32 am

It's hard enough to get the whole world to agree on basic things like don't kill women, let alone what TV to watch.
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Pocket (?) » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:29 am

Well, the civilized world anyway. The parts that are outraged that this is happening and generally feel that America has worn out its welcome on the world stage.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Mr. Big (?) » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:35 am

There's been a call to boycott Fox over how Fox News covered the family separation policy. Much of criticism came from people who works within Fox, like Seth MacFarlane, Steve Levitan (creator of "Modern Family), and Judd Apatow.

This is coming out during a time where Comcast and Disney are in a bidding war over who gets to buy Fox's entertainment arm (Fox News would not be part of the sale).

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Madeline (?) » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:33 pm



They’re unironically using the Eichmann Defense now. Fuck these fascist dipshits.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by West Filly (?) » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:05 pm

I think the attempt to address the questions about this law as though they were aimed at the border control officers individually is just ignorance of the actual question.

What people are questioning is the very existence of this law which results in the separation of children and parents en masse. The question isn't whether individual ICE workers are akin to individual nazi soldiers. The question is this:

Given that ICE will execute on immigration law, should there be a law which will result in ICE being ordered to separate children from parents?

In this context I'm not actually going to say that ICE workers are akin to nazis. If the legislature's defense of this law is to say that the immigrant is responsible for how they are treated because they "chose to take this risk" when entering the country, then there's another comparison I'd like to draw. The legislature is like an abuser saying to their victim "you should know I'm going to do [awful thing] if you so much as do [innocuous thing], so it's your fault."

Rather than focus on nazi analogies or even abuser analogies, I'm thinking of a different way to frame this: the legislature chose to separate children from parents.

I think that's my slogan there. The US state chose to separate children from parents. But to go back to my analogies, if the state or its representatives say "we have no choice", just remember where else you'd hear someone saying "you left me no choice."
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by SlateSlabrock (?) » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:45 pm

West Filly wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:05 pm
What people are questioning is the very existence of this law which results in the separation of children and parents en masse. The question isn't whether individual ICE workers are akin to individual nazi soldiers. The question is this:

Given that ICE will execute on immigration law, should there be a law which will result in ICE being ordered to separate children from parents?
That's the right question to ask, but a lot of people -- a lot of liberals, even -- will happily support immigration restrictions because they buy into conservative fear-mongering about gangs or drugs or dey terk er jerrrbs.
In this context I'm not actually going to say that ICE workers are akin to nazis. If the legislature's defense of this law is to say that the immigrant is responsible for how they are treated because they "chose to take this risk" when entering the country, then there's another comparison I'd like to draw. The legislature is like an abuser saying to their victim "you should know I'm going to do [awful thing] if you so much as do [innocuous thing], so it's your fault."

Rather than focus on nazi analogies or even abuser analogies, I'm thinking of a different way to frame this: the legislature chose to separate children from parents.
Congress deserves blame for broad tough-on-crime policy, but situations like the current one have also been fought out in the courts for decades.

The Trump administration deserves blame for its absolutist policy of charging every illegal immigrant with crimes, even asylum seekers and families. They deserve even more blame for intentionally splitting up families to force compliance. And their current policies on trying to detain kids is probably illegal too.

But there's a very specific reason people are comparing ICE to Nazis:
Wikipedia wrote:Otto Adolf Eichmann was a German Nazi SS-Obersturmbannführer (lieutenant colonel) and one of the major organizers of the Holocaust. He was tasked by SS-Obergruppenführer (general/lieutenant general) Reinhard Heydrich with facilitating and managing the logistics involved in the mass deportation of Jews to ghettos and extermination camps in Nazi-occupied Eastern Europe during World War II. In 1960, he was captured in Argentina by the Mossad, Israel's intelligence service. He was found guilty of war crimes in a widely publicised trial in Israel, and was hanged in 1962.

[...]
When additional information was brought forward that forced Eichmann into admitting what he had done, Eichmann would insist he had no authority in the Nazi hierarchy and was only following orders. Inspector Less noted that Eichmann did not seem to realise the enormity of his crimes and showed no remorse. His pardon plea, released in 2016, did not contradict this: "There is a need to draw a line between the leaders responsible and the people like me forced to serve as mere instruments in the hands of the leaders", Eichmann wrote. "I was not a responsible leader, and as such do not feel myself guilty."

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Mr. Big (?) » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:17 pm

James Woods got dropped from his agent because he was "feeling patriotic".

I'll confess that my ONLY frame of reference for James Woods is his guest appearances in "Family Guy" and nothing more. I had no idea he was that big of an asshole.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Octavia (?) » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:50 am

Apparently no one remade the feminism thread, so I'm gonna post this here:

A medical school in Tokyo altered test scores to make sure the number of women enrolled stayed low.

Their excuse was that "women often quit after graduating when they get married and have kids." :facehoof:
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Mr. Big (?) » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:49 am

Ugh. Sadly, Japan has always been hostile to women's right, so I can see schools there doing shit like this :-/

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by West Filly (?) » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:51 am

Ideally this wouldn't happen at all. It's dumb. A business needs to have contingency for its workers absences.

In terms of a practical idea, this might make me sound like an MRA for a second but hold on.

Men should be allowed just as much parental leave as women, of course not including the leave required for pregnancy and recovery from pregnancy. Then men should bloody well take the leave they're entitled to: I mean when else are you going to get to bond with your child like this?

Why do I want this? Because it's a win - win. Men get to see more of their kids, and get to assume more of the burden of childcare. This also means women aren't assumed to be taking on said burden and that men become more equal of a risk to their employers.

The UK brought in laws on these lines a while ago and it's not solved the problem but it has made a tangible cultural improvement. Not just in how employers take-on people, but in how men see their role in the household. Guys are proud to tell their bosses they won't be working for a few months because they're going to be taking care of their kid. That's something I really enjoy seeing.
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by diribigal (?) » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:33 am

West Filly wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:51 am
Men should be allowed just as much parental leave as women, of course not including the leave required for pregnancy and recovery from pregnancy. Then men should bloody well take the leave they're entitled to
I agree, but I think this is largely separate from the context of the article/what's going on in Japan.

Basically, there's a societal expectation for women to be stay-at-home moms, and if not that, at least do a lot of the caregiving and such outside of school hours. And daycare services and similar in Japan are spotty and area dependent.

It sounds like doctors generally have to work tough hours, and that someone has to stay home with the kids, and that person is usually the mother. So I guess this school's response was to secretly limit the number of women becoming doctors if many can't practically stay working as a doctor.
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Pocket (?) » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:22 am

If you've got a half hour to spare, This popped up in my news app today. It makes the case that we're still suffering from the aftermath of the 2008 financial collapse and the subsequent failure to fix it, and includes sound bites from all across the political spectrum (like, for real—trigger warning, Steve Bannon is in there somewhere) in support of that idea.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Pocket (?) » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:53 pm

In the news today: George Soros got sent a mail bomb, and Senate Minority Leader (as in, head Democrat) Chuck Schumer immediately took to Twitter to dish out some hot false equivalence.

Like, remember barely a year ago when this kind of whataboutism was one of the few things that Trump did that got his own party to lash out at him? If you need evidence of how steeply downhill we've gone recently, this is it.

Also Schumer is a piece of shit and needs to resign or face being kicked out of the party.

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Fizzbuzz (?) » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:30 am

Pocket wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:53 pm
Also Schumer is a piece of shit and needs to resign or face being kicked out of the party.
Getting kicked out? Are you kidding? He's the perfect stooge for Democratic billionaire donors. Unless he gets primaried out, which'd be a challenge since a challenger from the left would need to win over the whole state of New York, then I expect he's going to stay until he wakes up and smells his own bullshit.
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Octavia (?) » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:09 pm

The Saturday before election day is always my candidate research day. I've got my sample ballot ready and I'm gonna figure out who to vote for! :black101:
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Octavia (?) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:14 pm

Voting complete! :jingo:

Not many close races in my state, but I'm very interested in seeing the results in Georgia and Texas senate races later.
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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Mr. Big (?) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:40 pm

Voted as well! :hishovel:

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Re: Current Events And Politics

Post by Madeline (?) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:30 pm

:jingo: I did my part.

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