The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Tolerance!

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Perpetual Motion (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:09 am

On a more positive note, here's a great article about video games as systems of support and exploration for transgendered individuals. What's even more fascinating is that the comment section is polite and supportive, and even the one guy of dissenting opinion is debating things in a civilized manner, and others are educating him on things he doesn't quite get.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Weird Autumn (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:40 am

WhitemageofDOOM wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:39 am
[quote="Perpetual post_id=16235 time=1365135103 user_id=77]Interpretations, man. Interpretations. Most people just take that to feed into the "hate the sin, love the sinner," approach.
"Hate the sin, love the sinner" is fucking hard.
[/quote]
It's also, when it comes to LGBT issues, condescending bullshit. "I love gay people even though I think what they do is wrong" is a step up from outright hostility, but it's still predicated on the assertion that being gay(/bi/trans/etc.) is a sin and that's still pretty fucked up. I've never been a believer in the 'baby steps' approach to equality so I don't know that I'm okay with letting people off the hook just because they're not violent about their regressive beliefs.
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by FightingDreamer » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:53 am

:starity: Paperback, that was an awesome, gut-wrenching post.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Bigdog (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:10 am

It's also, when it comes to LGBT issues, condescending bullshit. "I love gay people even though I think what they do is wrong" is a step up from outright hostility, but it's still predicated on the assertiom that being gay(/bi/trans/etc.) is a sin and that's still pretty fucked up. I've never been a believer in the 'baby steps' approach to equality so I don't know that I'm okay with letting people off the hook just because they're not violent about their regressive beliefs.
It is fucked up but if they can actually keep it from affecting me at all, it's fine. Which isn't to say that the line is at "violent/not violent"--you can be nonviolent and still be making the world a much worse place for GSM persons and that's absolutely not okay.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Dexanth (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:25 am

[quote="Paperback post_id=16245 time=1365151650 user_id=1]One thing to remember is that the First Amendment only protects speech from the government. Private institutions are under no such obligation to protect all speech. This is how you can be punished or fired at work for racial or sexual slurs, the so-called "Fire" in a crowded theater exemption. If your speech causes direct and measurable harm to others in a private place the owners are not obligated to let you say it freely. As far as I understand it, this is how freedom of speech is usually interpreted legally, correct me if I'm wrong, please.[/quote]

Yes and no. What the 1st Amendment basically means is that the government doesn't have the right to regulate private speech. That means they can't ban you from advocating for whatever position you want (See : Fred Phelps & co).

You can basically say anything you want and it is legal with two significant exceptions :

1. It can't be inciting 'imminent lawless action'. In other words, it's okay to say 'I think we should violently overthrow the government' but it is not okay to say 'I think we should violently overthrow the government, let's start tomorrow by bombing this building'

Basically the difference between philosophical position & actual intent.

This is what evolved from the old Clear & Present Danger test in the old Schenk case.

2. The famous 'Fire in a Crowded Theater' is something of a corollary to this now, since it was from Schenk, but it's slightly different so bears some acknowledgement - basically, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater because that'll cause panic, people get trampled, people die, etc - basically you can't simply yell out anything you want heedless of the consequences. Which doesn't necessarily stop defamation - that's slander/libel - but you can't go on a street corner and start yelling about a madman with a gun whose about to come shooting people.

Now, the firing at work thing is a different story.

That's because the government can't regulate private speech, but individuals absolutely can. It's why say someone advocating for the Nazis would be banned here - because this is a private domain and thus the owners are free to regulate speech as they see fit. So, your job can fire you for racist/sexist remarks for that reason if they are so inclined.

But that issue -also- gets crazy complicated because of discrimination lawsuits. I don't know enough about the intersection of the two to know what is/isn't okay in that regard, and I do know it will vary state by state.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Dexanth (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:39 am

[quote="Opposing post_id=16261 time=1365172840 user_id=127]
It's also, when it comes to LGBT issues, condescending bullshit. "I love gay people even though I think what they do is wrong" is a step up from outright hostility, but it's still predicated on the assertion that being gay(/bi/trans/etc.) is a sin and that's still pretty fucked up. I've never been a believer in the 'baby steps' approach to equality so I don't know that I'm okay with letting people off the hook just because they're not violent about their regressive beliefs.[/quote]

It also depends a lot on where you go. I mean, Catholic doctrine for example is simply hung up on sex, period. They don't really single out GLBT people so much as the viewpoint of the Church is still regressive as hell on anything related to sexuality.

Though with Catholics, at least in the first world, there's also a huge disconnect between what the leaders of the Church say and what the layperson believes/does. It's part of why so many people have been leaving in the past couple decades, because the Church continues to preach things like 'Contraception is wrong' and so forth.

So it's less 'I love gay people but think being gay is wrong', the doctrine there is 'Being gay is totally fine; acting upon it in a sexual manner is not'. Marriage is out because marriage to Catholics is a sacred man-woman only sacrament and so forth. I haven't actually been a practicing Catholic for a decade, so I'm out of touch as to where the Church falls on the issue of same-sex relationships that are purely chaste, though I want to say that would be fine.

But yes such a viewpoint often is used as naught more than justification for bigotry amongst others.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Factory Factory (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:45 am

Dexanth wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:25 am
But that issue -also- gets crazy complicated because of discrimination lawsuits. I don't know enough about the intersection of the two to know what is/isn't okay in that regard, and I do know it will vary state by state.
The term you want is "protected class" - if it's one of the following categories, there is federal law prohibiting discrimination and harassment based on that attribute:
  • Race
  • Color
  • Religion
  • National origin
  • Age (40 and over)
  • Sex
  • Familial status (i.e. whether you have kids, unless it's a senior housing facility)
  • Disability status
  • Veteran status
  • Genetic information[/list:u]
    Some states have additional protected classes, but the federal list represents the minimum protection every US citizen has.

    --

    Also, re: Texas A&M, it seems that they actually amended the shit out of the bill: link.

    It's amended to actually be a general "Have a religious objection? Request an opt-out" bill. Except it's also a fucking land-mine, because such objections are not automatically granted. How are they granted? Here's the language:
    Let it be Further Enacted (3): That, after students have expressed a disagreement, that the University issue a reply in a timely fashion notifying the student whether or not his/her disagreement is deemed valid; and,

    Let it be Further Enacted (4): That, if the disagreement is deemed valid, a refund equivalent to the amount in question be provided in a timely and efficient manner to the students, with no additional financial burden placed on the students[.]
    the University issue a reply in a timely fashion notifying the student whether or not his/her disagreement is deemed valid
    the University . . . deem valid


    Holy shit. The first denial will have the university raked over the coals by any of a dozen advocacy organizations, and over a $2 discount.
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Dexanth (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:56 am

[quote="Pony post_id=16266 time=1365176731 user_id=54]
Dexanth wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:25 am
But that issue -also- gets crazy complicated because of discrimination lawsuits. I don't know enough about the intersection of the two to know what is/isn't okay in that regard, and I do know it will vary state by state.
The term you want is "protected class" - if it's one of the following categories, there is federal law prohibiting discrimination and harassment based on that attribute:
  • Race
  • Color
  • Religion
  • National origin
  • Age (40 and over)
  • Sex
  • Familial status (i.e. whether you have kids, unless it's a senior housing facility)
  • Disability status
  • Veteran status
  • Genetic information[/list:u]
    Some states have additional protected classes, but the federal list represents the minimum protection every US citizen has.
    [/quote]

    And hence that's why it gets complicated, because that means you don't have blanket freedom to fire over speech. I mean I think you could argue you could fire someone for dropping the N-word or other racial slurs, but what about when someone says anti-GLBT remarks, then post-firing claims religious discrimination, etc?

    All of that is a minefield.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Snowfire (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:57 am

Dexanth wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:39 am
[quote="Opposing post_id=16261 time=1365172840 user_id=127]
It's also, when it comes to LGBT issues, condescending bullshit. "I love gay people even though I think what they do is wrong" is a step up from outright hostility, but it's still predicated on the assertion that being gay(/bi/trans/etc.) is a sin and that's still pretty fucked up. I've never been a believer in the 'baby steps' approach to equality so I don't know that I'm okay with letting people off the hook just because they're not violent about their regressive beliefs.
It also depends a lot on where you go. I mean, Catholic doctrine for example is simply hung up on sex, period. They don't really single out GLBT people so much as the viewpoint of the Church is still regressive as hell on anything related to sexuality.

Though with Catholics, at least in the first world, there's also a huge disconnect between what the leaders of the Church say and what the layperson believes/does. It's part of why so many people have been leaving in the past couple decades, because the Church continues to preach things like 'Contraception is wrong' and so forth.

So it's less 'I love gay people but think being gay is wrong', the doctrine there is 'Being gay is totally fine; acting upon it in a sexual manner is not'. Marriage is out because marriage to Catholics is a sacred man-woman only sacrament and so forth. I haven't actually been a practicing Catholic for a decade, so I'm out of touch as to where the Church falls on the issue of same-sex relationships that are purely chaste, though I want to say that would be fine.

But yes such a viewpoint often is used as naught more than justification for bigotry amongst others.[/quote]

I haven't heard what Pope Francis' views are on the subject. He does seem to be more open-minded than previous Popes (particularly regarding priests being allowed to marry). Whether that will translate into a rule change is up for debate. :pinkieshrug:

And I agree, it's not so much the Church having a problem with LGBT people in general. They have been in the Dark Ages on gender and sexuality issues PERIOD for quite awhile. We're still trying to get women to be allowed to be priests. It'll be awhile before they even consider looking at LGBT stuff unfortunately :fluttersmith: .
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Dexanth (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:02 pm

I've heard nothing good about the new Pope's status on GLBT issues - but he's also already showing very positive signs in other regards, such as his dress/papal throne, the washing of the feet last week which included women for the first time, and his general policies on social/economic justice give me hope he'll start the tide turning so that even if his reign isn't particularly progressive on sexuality it will set the foundation for things to begin shifting for the better there as well.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Hi. (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:06 pm

Dexanth wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:02 pm
I've heard nothing good about the new Pope's status on GLBT issues
Regardless of his own personal views, The Church is a business, and they are acutely aware of the effects of bad press (See: Previous Christmas speech). While I will straight up eat a fruit hat if he comes out unambiguously in favor of gay marriage within the next couple of years, I expect that they will stay completely mum on the subject, and return to the 'love the sinner, hate the sin' messaging.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Factory Factory (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:14 pm

Dexanth wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:56 am
I mean I think you could argue you could fire someone for dropping the N-word or other racial slurs, but what about when someone says anti-GLBT remarks, then post-firing claims religious discrimination, etc?

All of that is a minefield.
That's actually not a discrimination issue, that's a speech issue. You're not firing them for the views, you're firing them for the way they acted on those views - speaking in a way that causes a hostile workplace (which, as an employer, you are obligated to avoid subjecting your employees to). If you don't fire or take disciplinary action against an employee who's harassing a member of a protected class, that's illegal on your part.

Against a non-protected class, an offhand comment won't suffice for creation of a hostile workplace, so if it was a comment like "The bible says being gay is immoral," and LGBT isn't a protected class in your state, then yeah, it risks a discrimination suit to fire that person. But if that comment is part of a pattern of significant discriminatory conduct, the management doesn't take action at its peril.
Hi! wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:06 pm
Regardless of his own personal views, The Church is a business, and they are acutely aware of the effects of bad press (See: Previous Christmas speech). While I will straight up eat a fruit hat if he comes out unambiguously in favor of gay marriage within the next couple of years, I expect that they will stay completely mum on the subject, and return to the 'love the sinner, hate the sin' messaging.
Actually, the Catholic Church's official position is on the less-douchey end of the "love the sinner" spectrum. It's "You can certainly be a good Catholic and gay. Just don't have any gay sex."
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Dexanth (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:16 pm

And that's why it's fairly complex as an issue and we have tons of lawsuits ending up in the courts :v:

That said you are distilling it into a fairly comprehensible form, so thanks, that helps explain it far better than I can!

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by londonarbuckle (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:37 pm

lol I just had a long talk with my mom and it was mostly good, but you'll never guess what she did, oh come on guess, yep she thinks I think I'm trans cuz asperger's. :-I

Really she's just convinced I'm trying to change myself because I don't like myself.

v Well, not exactly. What she meant is I'm trying to convince myself of something that isn't true because I desperately don't like myself.
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Perpetual Motion (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:39 pm

Isn't that true, though? I mean, it's right to change yourself because then you'll be happy, but still.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Aramek (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:44 pm

londonarbuckle wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:37 pm
What she meant is I'm trying to convince myself of something that isn't true because I desperately don't like myself.
If you did like yourself, like, somehow, suddenly, you woke up tomorrow feeling amazing about yourself, how do you feel that would affect your trans thoughts?
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by BackgroundPony (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:45 pm

I'm quite aware the constitutional protections only apply to what the government can and can't do, and not to private organizations. But where it gets sticky is that the school no doubt receives some public funding. Many universities do. If they get our money, do they need to follow our laws or not? And what do they do when an atheist student objects to their money going to the school's Christian or Islamic or Buddhist student center? What do they do when a skinhead objects to their money going to the school's Jewish or African American student center? It's not a religious objection at that point, but then you have the question of why this rule provides special exceptions for religious objections but not for other closely held philosophical objections. It's a big ugly mess and if the higher-ups at the school are at all reasonable, they'll kill that dumb bill.

On Pope Francis, in the past he has actually advocated for civil unions as a compromise in his home country. Yeah, it's not great, but it's moderately better than nothing. I don't see him coming out in favor of gay marriage any time soon. This is the Catholic church after all. If we're lucky we might get some miniscule progress on contraception. Baby steps is about all you can expect.

On the whole 'love the sinner hate the sin' idea: It's sort of a mental compromise that Christians have come up with. And I mean, it makes sense if you're talking about something like a murderer. Definitely hate the sin in that case, but still try your best to be loving and forgiving towards the murderer. The reason it gets thrown out in relation to homosexuals so much is that modern Christians are really stuck on a 100% literal interpretation of the old testament, for some crazy reason. Yeah, it says homosexuality is bad. Along with trimming the side of your beard, wearing mixed cloth fabrics, eating pork, working on the sabbath, etc. etc. I never have heard a good reason for why we get a pass on everything else, but when it comes to 'the gay' suddenly it is vitally important that we follow old testament laws to the letter. :-/

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by concerned reader (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:47 pm

So the Student Body Prez at A&M vetoed that bill.
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by londonarbuckle (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:48 pm

Aramek wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:44 pm
If you did like yourself, like, somehow, suddenly, you woke up tomorrow feeling amazing about yourself, how do you feel that would affect your trans thoughts?
Well, do you mean if I woke up feeling amazing about myself as a person, or feeling amazing about my physical sex and my gender? Because those are kind of different things. :pinkieshrug:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Aramek (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:51 pm

londonarbuckle wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:48 pm
Well, do you mean if I woke up feeling amazing about myself as a person, or feeling amazing about my physical sex and my gender? Because those are kind of different things. :pinkieshrug:
How much do you feel they affect each other? Any? Some? A lot?

Do you feel your general self esteem affects how you view your gender identity?
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by West Filly (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:58 pm

[quote="Concerned post_id=16277 time=1365180460 user_id=109]So the Student Body Prez at A&M vetoed that bill.
https://photos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-s ... 3186_n.jpg[/quote]

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by londonarbuckle (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:03 pm

That's kind of hard to say, I guess. Even if I felt amazing about everything else I think I'd still feel I was the wrong gender. Maybe even the wrong person. It's something I've always had a complicated relationship with, I suppose. I mean even when my self-esteem is at a high I've always found something else to worry about.

I think I could feel good about who I am in my mind and still experience dysphoria. I actually woke up feeling pretty good today but it didn't change much. It's just pretty hard to paint an ideal mental image of myself wherein I'm male anymore.

But who knows? My brain sucks.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Mordja » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:05 pm

Hey PW, thanks for undeleting that post. It's a large part of why I have problems with a lot of internet social justice I see; many of its proponents are just as otherizing and factional as their opponents. Its also why the term "priveledge" makes me unconsciously cringe now. It's a decent enough concept, but one the that's been so overused online that it lacks all meaning to me now. In my mind, class is still the ultimate priveledge.
Like, I've got the double whammy of being both a sexual and racial minority but I have so many more opportunities than your white, straight (I'm assuming) family members because I had the foresight to be born to middle-class parents. Lack of media representation? At least I'm not poor. Problems getting married in some places? Still not poor. Barring drastic economic collapse, I'll always have a safety-net millions of others—in North America alone—never will, and it makes me so angry and grateful.
Of course god help you if you're poor and queer.
...
I'll go back to lurking and feeling unspecifically dissatisfied now. Keep making good posts so I don't have to, y'all.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Snowfire (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:06 pm

BackgroundPony wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:45 pm

On the whole 'love the sinner hate the sin' idea: It's sort of a mental compromise that Christians have come up with. And I mean, it makes sense if you're talking about something like a murderer. Definitely hate the sin in that case, but still try your best to be loving and forgiving towards the murderer. The reason it gets thrown out in relation to homosexuals so much is that modern Christians are really stuck on a 100% literal interpretation of the old testament, for some crazy reason. Yeah, it says homosexuality is bad. Along with trimming the side of your beard, wearing mixed cloth fabrics, eating pork, working on the sabbath, etc. etc. I never have heard a good reason for why we get a pass on everything else, but when it comes to 'the gay' suddenly it is vitally important that we follow old testament laws to the letter. :-/
Don't forget that Noah was over 900 years old when he built the Ark too. Because, as we all know, EVERYTHING that the Bible says is 100% true. :-/

Also, I guess I'm going to hell, because I can't wear a beard. Facial hair looks like shit on me.
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Dexanth (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:08 pm

Class is arguably more than anything the single biggest important thing in America today. Which isn't to minimize everything else, but oh gosh what I wouldn't give for an actual uprising far greater than OWS to occur over how fucked up Economic Class is.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Aramek (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:15 pm

Dexanth wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:08 pm
Class is arguably more than anything the single biggest important thing in America today. Which isn't to minimize everything else, but oh gosh what I wouldn't give for an actual uprising far greater than OWS to occur over how fucked up Economic Class is.
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Snowfire (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:16 pm

Trying to lighten the mood and get the topic away from religion a little bit.

Honest curiosity question. Is there something about Fluttershy's character that appeals to our trans folks here?

I don't want that to sound wrong or anything, I'm just making an observation. Like, Confuzzler has Fluttershy as her avatar, as does London, and Grim. But then again, IWF doesn't have Fluttershy for hers (I don't know what she has), and Paperback has the Mane 6. Kitty has her OC.

I just noticed it seems to be a common avatar among our trans members, so it's an honest curiosity question.
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Pineapple » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:28 pm

Mordja wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:05 pm
Hey PW, thanks for undeleting that post. It's a large part of why I have problems with a lot of internet social justice I see; many of its proponents are just as otherizing and factional as their opponents. Its also why the term "priveledge" makes me unconsciously cringe now. It's a decent enough concept, but one the that's been so overused online that it lacks all meaning to me now. In my mind, class is still the ultimate priveledge.
Like, I've got the double whammy of being both a sexual and racial minority but I have so many more opportunities than your white, straight (I'm assuming) family members because I had the foresight to be born to middle-class parents. Lack of media representation? At least I'm not poor. Problems getting married in some places? Still not poor. Barring drastic economic collapse, I'll always have a safety-net millions of others—in North America alone—never will, and it makes me so angry and grateful.
Of course god help you if you're poor and queer.
...
I'll go back to lurking and feeling unspecifically dissatisfied now. Keep making good posts so I don't have to, y'all.
Intersectionality!

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by West Filly (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:31 pm

Mordja wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:05 pm
Hey PW, thanks for undeleting that post. It's a large part of why I have problems with a lot of internet social justice I see; many of its proponents are just as otherizing and factional as their opponents. Its also why the term "priveledge" makes me unconsciously cringe now. It's a decent enough concept, but one the that's been so overused online that it lacks all meaning to me now. In my mind, class is still the ultimate priveledge.
Like, I've got the double whammy of being both a sexual and racial minority but I have so many more opportunities than your white, straight (I'm assuming) family members because I had the foresight to be born to middle-class parents. Lack of media representation? At least I'm not poor. Problems getting married in some places? Still not poor. Barring drastic economic collapse, I'll always have a safety-net millions of others—in North America alone—never will, and it makes me so angry and grateful.
Of course god help you if you're poor and queer.
...
I'll go back to lurking and feeling unspecifically dissatisfied now. Keep making good posts so I don't have to, y'all.
There's a strange thing I've noticed about the use of the word privilege, one thing that I do think takes it away from its meaning. I've seen it used quite generally, as though people either wholly qualify as "privileged" or do not qualify as privileged. A sort of feeble attempt to judge people on the basis of how many things are going for them or against them. If the scales tip one way you're thought of as generally privileged, otherwise you're supposedly not privileged at all... I don't think that's how the concept works. Rather, there are specific priviliges that are afforded on the basis of certain conditions, and that "conditional" nature of privileges is the problem. For example, marriage is a privilege afforded to couples on the condition that they're opposite sex couples. This means that the privilege of marriage is afforded to heterosexuals, and homosexuals do not have the privilege, which ought to be a right that is accessible to all. Another example is that white men have the privilege of being well represented in western media. Saying that someone is "privileged" isn't saying that they're generally or wholly privileged based on weighing up what goes for or against them, but is actually just shorthand for calling someone out on the fact that they take for granted some specific thing (or things) that others are unjustly denied.

Everyone here is probably privileged in some way. We all have internet access, after all. Firstly, the existence of one privilege is not to detract from the existence of others. That would be making a backwards version of the "starving children in Africa" fallacy. Every privilege that ought to be a right is something that our world has done wrong. There is no privilege that we should shut up about or push aside for recognition of another. We have every right to point out any and every way in which the world is messed up. So I say to Mordja, yes, you might have some specific privileges for being middle class that those of the lower classes do not have. That is nothing to detract from the privileges you're denied on the basis of your sexuality and race.

Then we have intersectionality, which is a double whammy indeed. You're likely to lose all the privileges that both groups lose, and some specific intersections may lose specific privileges.
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Cthulhu Inc (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:44 pm

Snowfire wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:16 pm
:allears:
:rainbert:

Though I'd say Flutters is the least traditionally 'masculine', being the antithesis of strong, tough, brave, and reckless. :pinkieshrug:
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by londonarbuckle (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:51 pm

Snowfire wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:16 pm

I just noticed it seems to be a common avatar among our trans members, so it's an honest curiosity question.
Paging Aurora to thread.

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Snowfire (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:57 pm

londonarbuckle wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 2:51 pm
Paging Aurora to thread.
Right, I forgot about Aurora and Rainbow Dash.

Forget I said anything. :fluttersmith:
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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Fontra (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:05 pm

[quote="Cthulhu post_id=16290 time=1365187473 user_id=101]
Snowfire wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:16 pm
:allears:
:rainbert:

Though I'd say Flutters is the least traditionally 'masculine', being the antithesis of strong, tough, brave, and reckless. :pinkieshrug:[/quote]

While I'm not sure if the other words apply to her, I can attest that Aurora is the epitome of the word "reckless" in every videogame I've played with her. So she's at least more similar to RD in that regard. :gotcha:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Dexanth (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:08 pm

Then there's me with Celestia!

Basically there are many ways to be a girl :prettywings:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Mordja » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:29 pm

Yeah, the gangtags do tend to represent a poster's personality quite well. A lot of Stare Masters are kinda shy and quiet, Champions are outspokennly authoritative about a specific subject, Racers are assholes... :gotcha:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Dexanth (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:34 pm

Faithful students are eggheads :-I

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Fontra (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:40 pm

Mordja wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:29 pm
Racers are assholes... :gotcha:
Eat shit, you fucking asshole shitmonk-!

...I mean... Hey, that's not nice. :modesty:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Weird Autumn (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:11 pm

Dexanth wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:34 pm
Faithful students are eggheads :-I
Champions are brown-nosers :rainbert:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Pineapple » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:12 pm

Princesses of Soul are awesome :ohboy:

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Re: The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Toleranc

Post by Factory Factory (?) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:13 pm

I love you all, but I secretly collapse into horrible insecurity if my posts aren't acknowledged! :party:
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