Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:16 pm
by RIP Syndrome
man I'm being extra salty about video games now. no man should ever be this madly in anger with games.
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:27 pm
by DaikatunaRevengeance
i'm almost always salty about video games, tbh
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:38 pm
by RIP Syndrome
I should play some The Sims 1 for the PC Windows Computer to un-salt myself
maybe even make a let us play thread about it if I feel inspired enough. oh yeah and if I can tweak it to run at high res without a bunch of woeful graphical issues. yeah that too.
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:41 pm
by DaikatunaRevengeance
i sometimes wonder if i even like games
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:42 pm
by DaikatunaRevengeance
(i do actually)
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:12 pm
by RIP Syndrome
I'm not so sure myself tbh
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:13 pm
by DaikatunaRevengeance
i think i only like very specific kinds of games
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:14 pm
by RIP Syndrome
I think I don't like games
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:14 pm
by RIP Syndrome
I especially do not like the game
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:16 pm
by DaikatunaRevengeance
*nods*
i see
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:23 pm
by RIP Syndrome
god dammit you were supposed to be owned!!
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:26 pm
by DaikatunaRevengeance
i have ascended beyond getting owned
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:27 pm
by DaikatunaRevengeance
i cannot be owned
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:33 pm
by Gloomy Rube
I love mysims, it's the best sims franchise... mini-franchise. Instead of being about simulating life it's more like animal crossing where you build your neighbor's furniture. It has some extremely cute people in it with fun and cute personalities.
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:33 pm
by Gloomy Rube
spooookyyyy
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:43 pm
by RIP Syndrome
there's a bunch of collectible MySims minifigures in Sims 4, sort of like Funko Pops or Nendroids or similar, depicting various characters from that series. some of them actually got even made into sims, although heavily changed. they're p cute imo
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:21 pm
by DaikatunaRevengeance
cute!
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:53 am
by Aria Genisi
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:39 am
by Aria Genisi
noah did a very good, in-depth video about his time with TLOU 1 and 2 it helps articulate why he really enjoyed them, and I get it. I still don't like the games and I extremely don't care to play them, but I can at least go "okay, I see what you mean" and kinda come to an understanding, even if I don't agree
however, he does bookend the video mentioning how playing TLOU was prefaced by how he started playing it because of some other games reviewer(s?) saying that TLOU was SUPER AMAZING AND A LANDMARK GREATEST GAME TITLE or something along those lines. By the end of the review, he talks about how he did ultimately really appreciate the games and what he could tell of what the devs were aiming for. But they're still not the Greatest as those claims he heard were.
i mostly bring it up because TLOU bothers me for two major reasons:
1) the games themselves bother me for obvious reasons that I've brought up before
and 2) the critical reception and hype for it that tended to crop up just feels really wack to me, because it feels like "the problems of blind adoration of AAA games.exe"
just like, I know that opinions and preferences can vary from person to person, but i feel like at best, TLOU is just a good, well made game. It's a triumph in budget for a linear, directed story, as well as an impressive attempt at capturing the same feel of "prestige" television. But those just feel like the peak of the wack priorities of AAA game development, where they go for what's broadly appealing in mass media, and be generally unwilling to truly do something really interesting with the medium
sorry, guess i'm rambling again. basically, the crazy praise that a ton of AAA games get when all they really do is try to emulate TV and movies is dumb as fuck, when at best, they're just fun or interesting stories that people might enjoy, and not truly doing anything groundbreaking. TLOU is basically just the most recent example that I can point to, and the whole thing bothers me
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:00 am
by The Ghost of Ember
noah is a great analaysis dude but he doesn't have a critical bone in his body, he'll cite things he doesn't like but if he overall doesn't have something good to say about a game he will just straight up not talk about it
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:39 am
by SlateSlabrock
A friend (who's gay, and has faced his share of discrimination because of it) has been playing through TLOU2, and he says it's very good, the story is nuanced, and the "this character is treated horribly" criticism misses that it's a very violent game that treats everyone horribly. His general opinion is that it doesn't deserve to be review-bombed to 0/100 forever.
So it seems like there's room to enjoy a AAA game that's at least high quality in certain aspects, although you don't have to like it, or play it, or acknowledge it in any way.
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:52 pm
by Aria Genisi
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:11 pm
by DaikatunaRevengeance
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:08 am
by !saak
this whole situation has this vibe of 'games deserving the same recognition as movies' and getting recognized as something worthy and prestigious, but
1) we're way past that point already, and
2)... the prestige that TLOU wants to have reminds me of something like 2004's Best Picture Winner Crash, or 2018's Green Book
ill-informed and behind the curve
the latter of which is kind of inherent to big, lumbering juggernauts that take years to make.
the former is not exclusive to big budget games/movies etc, and is more related the people driving the thing creatively
an additional effect is that, because this is a big, huge thing with a ton of marketing, is that you're overshadowing the efforts made by smaller, potentially/probably more interesting experiences that actually do drive the medium forward in interesting ways
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:09 am
by !saak
I'm actually really curious about the TLoU games now from a... analytical standpoint I suppose?
my friends have a PS4 and own the game I'm pretty sure so imma ask to borrow it
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
ill-informed and behind the curve
the latter of which is kind of inherent to big, lumbering juggernauts that take years to make.
the former is not exclusive to big budget games/movies etc, and is more related the people driving the thing creatively
this by the way, is still why Nier: Automate has basically ruined 'big' games for me forever
cuz somehow, even tho it's a big production with dozens if not hundreds of people involved that took years to create, it just completely blows everything out of the water and should've been a cultural reset in the AAA space
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:14 am
by !saak
also
I'm seeing a lotta discussion surrounding ludonarrative dissonance now in the context of TLoU2,
ludonarrative dissonance being "the gameplay mechanics tells a different story from the... actual, intended story", and
I'm just sitting here like "didn't we have this discussion 12 years ago?"
I distinctly remember, when I was in uni, a slew of articles on industry sites like Gamasutra, a number of GDC talks etc etc covering this
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:17 am
by !saak
I mean, I suppose it's the same within any other medium that you have works that completely miss the mark and have a ton of internal conflicts, even after new terms and critical lenses get added to the a medium's vocabulary
Crash won Best Picture in 2004 and film had been around for over a century at that point
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:27 am
by DaikatunaRevengeance
tlou2 is managing to dredge up old and tired discourses that were settled years ago
from ludonarrative dissonance to acting like video games are finally art now
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:53 am
by Gloomy Rube
the people who say tlou2 is proving video games are art is probably a circle on the venn diagram with people who think art has to involve suffering or it isn't art.
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
the people who say tlou2 is proving video games are art is probably a circle on the venn diagram with people who think art has to involve suffering or it isn't art.
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
this by the way, is still why Nier: Automate has basically ruined 'big' games for me forever
cuz somehow, even tho it's a big production with dozens if not hundreds of people involved that took years to create, it just completely blows everything out of the water and should've been a cultural reset in the AAA space
original Nier was better tbh
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
the people who say tlou2 is proving video games are art is probably a circle on the venn diagram with people who think art has to involve suffering or it isn't art.
it's true though. PPPP aka Pee Pee Poo Poo is genu-wine art because reading it is pure suffering for the audience
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:11 am
by DaikatunaRevengeance
i suffer from my art, everyday i get up and wonder why am i here
just to suffer? every day i feel it my hands, the posts i've lost, won't stop hurting.
You feel it too don't you?
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:11 am
by DaikatunaRevengeance
my hot take on nier vs nier: automata is i don't like yoko taro's games
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
haven't played it so I can't comment but I'm hella interested in the upcoming remake
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:22 am
by DaikatunaRevengeance
the ludonarrative dissonence discourse then and now has always been a kind of wankery, imo
like, let's talk about the guy that started it, Clint Hocking
he argued that Bioshock suffered from ludonarrative dissonence because a game about being selfish being bad, you could kill the little sisters to gain power, in other words you were being rewarded for selfishness
except you could also not kill them and also get rewarded, in fact the reward was greater than killing them
and it led to the good ending
meaning that the themes of the game were in fact resonating with the gameplay
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:29 am
by DaikatunaRevengeance
the other games that have been listed back then (in another blogpost/article that popped up after the first one) as having ludonarrative dissonence were uncharted, cod 4 and mass effect
and even then the arguments as to why these games were as such was just as weak as the bioshock example
for mass effect, the issue the author took with the game was it allowing us to play a complete jerk and still be regarded as a hero
for cod 4 the issue was apparently that a lot of npcs die in that game without the plot being affected which is, ok, congrats on discovering the concept of redshirts
uncharted is the only with something of a leg to stand on, but again it's a flimsy leg, because the people nathan shoots kinda shot first
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:36 am
by !saak
back then it became a bit of a meme in gamedev circles but ludonarrative dissonance can be a useful lens and the idea behind it is applicable to other artforms
it's kinda like 'the male gaze' n stuff like that
maybe another apt comparison is 'Bechdel Test', which has its origins in a comic strip and became a famous way of looking at how women are portrayed in media
there's a ton of discussion surrounding this term as well
I think it has less to do with the term itself, and more how you apply it
I like keeping it in the back of my mind when looking at media, but it's just another tool in your analytical box and not the defacto, be-all-end-all means of critical analysis
like games, the ways we look at them have evolved as well... or should have evolved... or... well, you get what I mean.
the people who say tlou2 is proving video games are art is probably a circle on the venn diagram with people who think art has to involve suffering or it isn't art.
also, for the longest time and up until half a century ago, what was considered art or not was decided by nobles and the elite and the 'general populace' was completely left out of the equation
then things like Pop Art and Dada happened and that shifted the landscape
now you have 'indie' artists on Twitter getting hundreds or even thousands of retweets and likes, reaching a relatively large audience
but somehow because 'thing is in museum' that means it's art. or because something gets an Oscar nod it's more 'valuable' or 'prestigious' than say an indie short someone put on Vimeo
because it has 'representation of minority in it that suffers' it's somehow more 'artful'
Re: naughty dog wants us to know that tlou 2 is very edgy (also Zombie Land Saga owns), homefront suuuuuuucks
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:36 am
by !saak
what's art or not is basically a fruitless discussion is what I'm saying