The Gender and Sexual Minority Thread: Love and Tolerance!

WhitemageofDOOM · Post by **WhitemageofDOOM** » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:44 pm

[quote="Momar post_id=16136 time=1364960640 user_id=153]Also check the date of that post.[/quote]

Oh i'm saying it's a stupid sexist joke.

concerned reader · Post by **concerned reader** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:15 am

So my girlfriend is reading her textbook for Lifespan Development (which is why she asked me about scrotum/testes in the first place) and she just hit this gem:

I don't even know how this got published.

Pineapple · Post by **Pineapple** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:20 am

It's because textbook companies are worthless shams

Bigdog · Post by **Bigdog** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:21 am

Maybe it's true? Is it the wording that you're objecting to? I always thought it was true that young women were more vulnerable to eating disorders like that (purely for societal reasons, mind you); I had no idea about gay/bisexual boys, but if they're saying that those boys are statistically at a higher risk, and citing published studies, I'd have to read those studies (and be qualified to interpret them) before calling bullshit.

WhitemageofDOOM · Post by **WhitemageofDOOM** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:23 am

[quote="Concerned post_id=16138 time=1364962510 user_id=109]So my girlfriend is reading her textbook for Lifespan Development (which is why she asked me about scrotum/testes in the first place) and she just hit this gem:

I don't even know how this got published.[/quote]

Because the texas board of education decides what does and doesn't see print in text books do to the fact texas buys text books on a state level while other states buy them on a school district level.

CorvusCaw · Post by **CorvusCaw** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:23 am

It's from this Norwegian study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16634052
http://www.medicineonline.com/news/12/5 ... -risk.html

Pineapple · Post by **Pineapple** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:24 am

Well obviously straight boys don't get eating disorders thats for flighty women and sissies

WhitemageofDOOM · Post by **WhitemageofDOOM** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:25 am

[quote="Pineapple post_id=16143 time=1364963094 user_id=1]Well obviously straight boys don't get eating disorders thats for flighty women and sissies

[/quote]

Yeah that. The numbers might be right, but it's using "only" and defining the disorder by who gets it, it should describe what it is and only at the end mention who has statistically higher risks.

Bigdog · Post by **Bigdog** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:27 am

Are the people seeing something intensely problematic here assuming that it's a LOL GAY BOYS ARE LIKE GIRLS stereotype? What makes that the reason instead of the possibility that studies have shown gay/bi youths to actually be among the higher risk groups? Are you folks more up on the research than I am? I honestly am confused here?

edit: Okay, answered while I was typing. I guess I still don't leap to assume bad faith on the part of the textbook writers (based only on that picture), but I can certainly accept the suggestion that they could have worded it better.

Gravenstein · Post by **Gravenstein** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:28 am

In case anyone's interested, the rest of that chapter of the book is here.

Perpetual Motion · Post by **Perpetual Motion** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:29 am

Statistics are statistics.

If anything, I'd blame psychological pressure caused by the insane standards of body image that is put on women (cis or not).

Bigdog · Post by **Bigdog** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:32 am

[quote="Perpetual post_id=16147 time=1364963384 user_id=77]Statistics are statistics.

If anything, I'd blame psychological pressure caused by the insane standards of body image that is put on women (cis or not).[/quote]

Well, people can absolutely twist the statistics to represent what you want them to say. This excerpt just didn't set off that alarm for me on its own. If anything, my first response would be to ask why that's the case and why you hear even less done to address it than you do eating disorders for girls (it's probably because nobody at the school or parental levels wants to touch the issue of queer youth wit a ten-foot pole).

I mean, if the rest of the book or the class it was selected for seemed slanted towards bigotry, then I certainly might scrutinize any claims they made about GSMs in context, yeah.

concerned reader · Post by **concerned reader** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:38 am

Judging from what my girlfriend has said, the rest of the book is not much better about making rote generalizations and twisting studies to fit their point of view. Also, according to the professor, being spanked as a child means that you're going to grow up to be a masochist.

--edit

The other problem I have with that excerpt is that it states it in such a way that "only young girls or non-straight boys are at risk," which was entirely not the point of either of those studies. Anybody could be at risk, at any age and of any orientation or gender or race. The way the book phrases it is very important, because exposure is important.

CorvusCaw · Post by **CorvusCaw** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:51 am

[quote="Gravenstein post_id=16146 time=1364963310 user_id=1]In case anyone's interested, the rest of that chapter of the book is here.[/quote]
So this is what kids learn about in school these days, eh? This book is kind of fun. I had no idea that there was a term for a girl's first period. It's menarche, pronounced (men-are-key).

Virtually all boys know about ejaculation ahead of time

I didn't!

Sabrina’s father noticed that as his children entered adolescence, they kept their bedroom doors closed, resisted spending time with the family, and became more argumentative. Sabrina and her mother squabbled over Sabrina’s messy room (“It’s my room, Mom. You don’t have to live in it!”). And Sabrina resisted the family’s regular weekend visit to Aunt Gina’s (“Why do I have to go every week?”).

So basically, they're teaching kids that puberty turns girls into evil bitches who hate their parents? That's kind of fucked up.

Concerned Reader wrote:Judging from what my girlfriend has said, the rest of the book is not much better about making rote generalizations and twisting studies to fit their point of view. Also, according to the professor, being spanked as a child means that you're going to grow up to be a masochist.

There's a study for that, too... there's a study for everything!

concerned reader · Post by **concerned reader** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:53 am

[quote="CorpusCavernosum post_id=16151 time=1364964684 user_id=168]/080228/spanking-raises-chances-of-risky-deviant-sexual-behavior.htm]study for that[/url], too... there's a study for everything![/quote]
There probably really is a study to support almost any point of view at this point.

Bigdog · Post by **Bigdog** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:56 am

Just to nitpick you: it doesn't say only, it says mainly. Sorry, it's just a pet peeve of mine.

Woomod says the book ought to have been worded more appropriately, though, and I assume woomod knows what they're talking about when it comes to psych science writing.

Sorry to hear your girlfriend's class/book seems like such bullshit when taken as a whole. It's never fun to have to ride out that sort of thing where an idiot/regressive has power over your grade.

[quote="CorpusCavernosum post_id=16151 time=1364964684 user_id=168]So basically, they're teaching kids that puberty turns girls into evil bitches who hate their parents? That's kind of fucked up.[/quote]

Puberty turned me into an evil asshole who hated my parents, I don't see why girls should be any purer!

Lazy · Post by **Lazy** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:57 am

CorpusCavernosum post_id=16151 time=1364964684 user_id=168][quote= wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:28 am
In case anyone's interested, the rest of that chapter of the book is here.

So this is what kids learn about in school these days, eh? This book is kind of fun. I had no idea that there was a term for a girl's first period. It's menarche, pronounced (men-are-key).

Virtually all boys know about ejaculation ahead of time

I didn't!

Sabrina’s father noticed that as his children entered adolescence, they kept their bedroom doors closed, resisted spending time with the family, and became more argumentative. Sabrina and her mother squabbled over Sabrina’s messy room (“It’s my room, Mom. You don’t have to live in it!”). And Sabrina resisted the family’s regular weekend visit to Aunt Gina’s (“Why do I have to go every week?”).

So basically, they're teaching kids that puberty turns girls into evil bitches who hate their parents? That's kind of fucked up.
[/quote]Uh, that sounds like a completely normal teenager establishing their independence?

CorvusCaw · Post by **CorvusCaw** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:00 am

Lazy post_id=16154 time=1364965068 user_id=1][quote= wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:51 am
So this is what kids learn about in school these days, eh? This book is kind of fun. I had no idea that there was a term for a girl's first period. It's menarche, pronounced (men-are-key).
I didn't!
So basically, they're teaching kids that puberty turns girls into evil bitches who hate their parents? That's kind of fucked up.

Uh, that sounds like a completely normal teenager establishing their independence?[/quote]
but why isn't there a male example?

concerned reader · Post by **concerned reader** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:03 am

[quote="jerrylee post_id=16153 time=1364964964 user_id=154]Just to nitpick you: it doesn't say only, it says mainly. Sorry, it's just a pet peeve of mine.

Woomod says the book ought to have been worded more appropriately, though, and I assume woomod knows what they're talking about when it comes to psych science writing.

Sorry to hear your girlfriend's class/book seems like such bullshit when taken as a whole. It's never fun to have to ride out that sort of thing where an idiot/regressive has power over your grade.
[/quote]
Yeah, sorry, I reworded it for effect, because that's how it comes across to a casual reader. It makes pretty much no mention of older people or straight males being at risk.

She's going to complain about it to the psych department head sometime this week. Apparently she's not the only one who's got problems with the teacher.

Lazy · Post by **Lazy** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:06 am

[quote="CorpusCavernosum post_id=16155 time=1364965229 user_id=168]
but why isn't there a male example?[/quote]Because it's an anecdotal example from a single family, not a large sample set of stories?

confuzzler · Post by **confuzzler** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:53 am

I've actually known more bulemic and anorexic men than women. When you have friends who are on the wrestling team, they tend to do that sort of stuff. Same thing with a friend of mine who was a skatertype and felt like he absolutely had to fit into the body type of being ridonkulously skinny and able to squeeze through locked gates and stuff.

With that said, I just now remembered that I'm hungry and meant to eat food something like an hour ago. Is it weird that talking about anorexia makes me hungry?

concerned reader · Post by **concerned reader** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:04 am

It goes with that societal impression that men are strong able bodied dudes who can take care of themselves and don't get raped or have self image issues or eating disorders, and can beat depression with shear iron will.

BackgroundPony · Post by **BackgroundPony** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:58 am

[quote="Concerned post_id=16159 time=1364997877 user_id=109]It goes with that societal impression that men are strong able bodied dudes who can take care of themselves and don't get raped or have self image issues or eating disorders, and can beat depression with shear iron will.[/quote]

I beat depression (to a pulp) and so can you!

Sadly that is not true, at least in my case. Depression still rides on me like a backpack full of lead cannonballs. But I figure if I ever get past it, I'll feel like one of those runners who trained at high altitude while wearing weights and be able to enjoy life at high speed.

But yeah, while there may be statistical variations, it's silly to claim that any mental illness has some sort of preference for gender. Everyone is vulnerable, unfortunately.

Timber72 · Post by **Timber72** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:10 pm

Sorry to kinda randomly shove this in here, but I had some weird dreams last night. I'll skip the other parts, but I had a few visions of myself where I had really long hair. My bangs were incredibly long as to almost covering my face. I got to see myself from a third person view, and for some reason, when I saw that I had really long feminine hair, I got really happy and confident in my dream.

Dreams often have strange feelings that don't always mesh with my normal day-to-day morals/feelings/desires. In all honesty, while I'm obviously genetically a male, I've never considered myself very masculine. I have a very large amount of feminine traits, but I can't say that I've ever really had a strong affinity to being a female either. So, yeah, I have no idea.

Madeline · Post by **Madeline** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:48 pm

Twilight wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:10 pm
Sorry to kinda randomly shove this in here, but I had some weird dreams last night. I'll skip the other parts, but I had a few visions of myself where I had really long hair. My bangs were incredibly long as to almost covering my face. I got to see myself from a third person view, and for some reason, when I saw that I had really long feminine hair, I got really happy and confident in my dream.

Dreams often have strange feelings that don't always mesh with my normal day-to-day morals/feelings/desires. In all honesty, while I'm obviously genetically a male, I've never considered myself very masculine. I have a very large amount of feminine traits, but I can't say that I've ever really had a strong affinity to being a female either. So, yeah, I have no idea.

You don't have to be trans to want to break out of a strictly confined gender role. You might just like the idea of being a more feminine guy and there's nothing wrong with that. If you get a chance to experiment in a place where you feel safe doing it, you could try having your hair different or whatever else you want and see if you like it.

West Filly · Post by **West Filly** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:54 pm

A question for strange psychoanalytical value, in other words for funsies. Can you describe the hair more to me? Straight, curly, wavy? Black, blonde, brown, ginger? In the dream, I mean, whether or not it matches your hair IRL.

CorvusCaw · Post by **CorvusCaw** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:01 pm

Twilight wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:10 pm
Sorry to kinda randomly shove this in here, but I had some weird dreams last night. I'll skip the other parts, but I had a few visions of myself where I had really long hair. My bangs were incredibly long as to almost covering my face. I got to see myself from a third person view, and for some reason, when I saw that I had really long feminine hair, I got really happy and confident in my dream.

Dreams often have strange feelings that don't always mesh with my normal day-to-day morals/feelings/desires. In all honesty, while I'm obviously genetically a male, I've never considered myself very masculine. I have a very large amount of feminine traits, but I can't say that I've ever really had a strong affinity to being a female either. So, yeah, I have no idea.

Perfectly normal. I'm sure most males have dream sequences where they are feminine and/or female... I have. Others just don't talk about it because it never comes up or don't admit it because it wouldn't be manly to do so. Like PW said, there's no need to stay within the old gender roles... have fun with it. I wore a dress around the house a couple days ago just for fun, since everybody I live with is gone, and while it's not something I'd ever do with other people around, I felt totally comfortable with it.

Mir · Post by **Mir** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:11 pm

Nailing down the meaning of dreams, if there's any real meaning at all, could drive a person crazy.
I wouldn't think too hard about it, Twilight.
I had a dream once where I was a woman. It wasn't even the focus of the dream, which had it's own nonsensical plot like most of my dreams do. I just happened to be a woman on top of that, like it was just a normal thing. I looked into the subject afterward and found out it's not really that uncommon of a phemomena.

In the end, it's really more about what you feel it means.

For what it's worth though, I'm nowhere near the stereotypical male either.

Timber72 · Post by **Timber72** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:35 pm

Regardless of my responses to you all, I appreciate all of yours. I'm certainly not jumping onto anything right now, but I won't lie, my life is very distressful right now. I'm figured I'd explore these feelings with all of you here, since it was strange to feel so happy like that.
[quote="Paperback post_id=16162 time=1365025727 user_id=1]
You don't have to be trans to want to break out of a strictly confined gender role. You might just like the idea of being a more feminine guy and there's nothing wrong with that. If you get a chance to experiment in a place where you feel safe doing it, you could try having your hair different or whatever else you want and see if you like it.[/quote]
It's really confusing. I personally don't think I am trans either, but it was a really fun dream I had. Once I saw that third person view, I was suddenly so confident. I really liked my appearance. I'm also wondering if I'm not some sort of genderqueer. I don't really want to be a guy, but not really a girl either. I just want to be me, my own vision of myself, but I can't really explain what that is beside "A happy and innocent person." Maybe the genders don't really matter, or their roles. That could certainly mean I just could continue on being a guy, but doing my own thing.
[quote="In post_id=16163 time=1365026041 user_id=130]A question for strange psychoanalytical value, in other words for funsies. Can you describe the hair more to me? Straight, curly, wavy? Black, blonde, brown, ginger? In the dream, I mean, whether or not it matches your hair IRL.[/quote]
I have brown hair in real life that curls if it gets really long. In my dream, it was a darker brown (almost black) that was very straight. It wasn't super long in the back. It was just above my shoulders, slightly parted in the front.

CorpusCavernosum wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:01 pm
Perfectly normal. I'm sure most males have dream sequences where they are feminine and/or female... I have. Others just don't talk about it because it never comes up or don't admit it because it wouldn't be manly to do so. Like PW said, there's no need to stay within the old gender roles... have fun with it. I wore a dress around the house a couple days ago just for fun, since everybody I live with is gone, and while it's not something I'd ever do with other people around, I felt totally comfortable with it.

I'm not really comfortable with myself enough to wear any feminine clothes curretnly. However, if I could fix my body shape, I wouldn't mind wearing a nice dress and cute sunhat thing. I'd really like that I think. Or, maybe it's just that image that I like and strive more to be.

Mir wrote:Nailing down the meaning of dreams, if there's any real meaning at all, could drive a person crazy.
I wouldn't think too hard about it, Twilight.
I had a dream once where I was a woman. It wasn't even the focus of the dream, which had it's own nonsensical plot like most of my dreams do. I just happened to be a woman on top of that, like it was just a normal thing. I looked into the subject afterward and found out it's not really that uncommon of a phemomena.

In the end, it's really more about what you feel it means.

For what it's worth though, I'm nowhere near the stereotypical male either.

Well, besides the really intense confidence it gave me, there was something else that happened in the dream that's been making me take it more seriously.

It didn't really disturb me, but my mind seems to be telling me something, since I hardly ever have serious dreams like that.

edit: I also want to say unrelated, that with the dual quoting thing now, this post was an absolute pain in the butt to make.

Ragnar · Post by **Ragnar** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:37 pm

Twilight wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:10 pm
Sorry to kinda randomly shove this in here, but I had some weird dreams last night. I'll skip the other parts, but I had a few visions of myself where I had really long hair. My bangs were incredibly long as to almost covering my face. I got to see myself from a third person view, and for some reason, when I saw that I had really long feminine hair, I got really happy and confident in my dream.

Dreams often have strange feelings that don't always mesh with my normal day-to-day morals/feelings/desires. In all honesty, while I'm obviously genetically a male, I've never considered myself very masculine. I have a very large amount of feminine traits, but I can't say that I've ever really had a strong affinity to being a female either. So, yeah, I have no idea.

You had a dream about being pretty, and liking it. Neat! I wouldn't mind a dream like that once in a while.

Cthulhu Inc · Post by **Cthulhu Inc** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:49 pm

A few nights ago I had a dream where I went to a clinic and got a 'mone injection (

) and I felt better and...rounder (not fat) afterwards. How the hell do you feel round?

It's a siiiiiign

Ninetails · Post by **Ninetails** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:57 pm

[quote="Cthulhu post_id=16168 time=1365029370 user_id=101]A few nights ago I had a dream where I went to a clinic and got a 'mone injection (

) and I felt better and...rounder (not fat) afterwards. How the hell do you feel round?

It's a siiiiiign

[/quote]

A sign that you're fat

Pineapple · Post by **Pineapple** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:02 pm

One time I had a dream that I was a black pre-op transwoman and I was attending my white girlfriend's father's funeral and I was stuck in the shower because my girlfriend's brother was camped out on the toilet demanding to see my penis.

Cthulhu Inc · Post by **Cthulhu Inc** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:03 pm

I am a pleasant eight stone, thank you very much.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:11 pm

Pineapple wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:02 pm
One time I had a dream that I was a black pre-op transwoman and I was attending my white girlfriend's father's funeral and I was stuck in the shower because my girlfriend's brother was camped out on the toilet demanding to see my penis.

I... can't... stop... laughing

. All I picture is him sitting on the toliet with a glass of champagne waiting patiently for you to get out of the shower

.

West Filly · Post by **West Filly** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:13 pm

Twilight wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:35 pm
I have brown hair in real life that curls if it gets really long. In my dream, it was a darker brown (almost black) that was very straight. It wasn't super long in the back. It was just above my shoulders, slightly parted in the front.

Interesting. Near black hair, parts centrally, in long bangs that almost cover the face. Long hair, shoulder length.

Tell me, did it look anything like...

This

Pineapple · Post by **Pineapple** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:14 pm

It wasn't even really a sexual thing, he just refused to believe I had a penis and he wasn't gonna leave the bathroom until I either fessed up to lying or proved it.

Dreams are fuckin' weird yo

Timber72 · Post by **Timber72** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:16 pm

Actually

No, but seriously, that's pretty close without the joke stripes. It wasn't quite as clean cut though like that with hard edges. It looked a bit more rough. That's an impressive approximation though!

edit: I just reread my description. I walked right into that

(?) · Post by **Venusy** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:27 pm

I very rarely have dreams with a clearly defined sense of self, possibly because I lack the ability to really picture myself in general, and don't really like mirrors and things like that. On the occasions where I have been able to picture myself (they were more common years ago), things were a lot more... malleable than they ever could be in reality. I'm guessing this indicates a desire for change and some level of unhappiness with the body, but fat aside, I can't pin down how I'd want to change anything else permanently.

Cthulhu Inc · Post by **Cthulhu Inc** (?) » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:10 pm

OH GOD PINEY MY LUUUUUUUUNGS