ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Fri May 22, 2020 6:34 am

nicky's never coming back
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Skipper (?) » Fri May 22, 2020 2:03 pm

I want to go home

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Angry Critter (?) » Sat May 23, 2020 7:20 am

: (

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Orange Fluffy Sheep (?) » Sat May 23, 2020 9:43 am

my cousin's death drives me to steal from gloveboxes
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Sat May 23, 2020 10:43 am

aiden pierce is walter white written by people who think walter white is cool
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Mr. Big (?) » Sat May 23, 2020 9:17 pm

Me: "Do a 'mutuals only' post on Twitter"
Random Non-Mutual: "Sup?"

I hate this :-I

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Sat May 23, 2020 10:11 pm

rip
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Gloomy Rube (?) » Sun May 24, 2020 3:02 am

your mistake was using twitter
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Skipper (?) » Sun May 24, 2020 5:56 am

More like Shitter, amirite?

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Angry Critter (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 6:46 am

Twitter is such a cesspool of hate. Even as I try to follow mostly wholesome stuff, it's so hard to not get dragged down by people fighting each other in my feed. It's like that place serves as an emotional storm drain for lots of people on there, just take all your frustrations and negative feelings and virtually bash people to death with them. Weird coping mechanism...

If you get caught up in something somehow and ask people to stop harassing you, nine out of ten times they'll just project all their own toxic behavior onto you so they can stubbornly keep yelling at you as if you did something gruesome to them...

So many people on there are so angry at themselves without realizing it, it's astounding. The cognitive dissonance is so bad. Thankfully plenty of people still post cool news and art and random funny stuff.

So long as I stray from news, current events, and politics, things usually stay tolerable.

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 6:54 am

it's built to do that


twitter keeps trying to get us to see people not on our feed, this is because it wants to expose us to the worst, most angry, hateful dipshits out there

so we can become angry hateful dipshits and keep it going

the best way to drive "engagement" is to get people angry and hate tweeting

even the users have realized this and some will go out of their way to post the shittiest, most poisous take possible so they'd gate hatelikes/hateretweets

it's a garbage website that needs to be shutdown
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 6:55 am

and i don't want to hear anyone coming and being like "no it's not like that"

yes it is, people have written about this
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Angry Critter (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 6:58 am

Yeah, I totally follow 600 different accounts just for Twitter's fucking algorithm to only give me content of the same 10-20 people on that list while neglecting the rest, while half the shit ending up on my feed is from accounts I don't even follow.

I really hate this "We know better what's good for you than you do" attitude most sites seem to have nowadays. :ohrarity:

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 7:02 am

there are people on that website that need serious help, but they're not going to seek it out because they've grown into a routine of sitting there and refreshing twitter constantly, looking for things that will depress them or further anger them as a form of self-harm, retweeting them, maybe adding their own virtiol to it and then repeating the process

these same people will then joke how self-hate and self-harm is "millenial humor" or "zoomer humor" so they don't adress the elephant in the room that they have depression and other problems

and websites like twitter or facebook or whatever your poison is are built to exploit people like this
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Angry Critter (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 7:08 am

I do feel like the algorithm doesn't exactly try to push you in that direction if you don't already show that kind of behavior, basically telling it that that's what you'd be engaging with.

But even so, even just having some people you follow be like that is enough for fights to just pop up uncalled for...

I still occasionally scroll through it cause of art and funny gifs and music news and such. :pinkieshrug: But that doesn't mean I prefer this method of reaching that kind of content. Just means that's how most people spread it nowadays. I miss the internet of 15 years ago when there was a forum such as this one for absolutely everything, and what few social media actually existed were silly and inconsequential.

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 7:08 am

same
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 8:20 am

DaikatunaRevengeance wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:54 am
the best way to drive "engagement" is to get people angry and hate tweeting
It really is, sadly. CGP Grey has a good video explaining that anger, more than anything else, is the best way to get someone to share something. And when it's something people will take sides on, the groups on each side will share content far more than if it's something that pretty much everyone agrees about.

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 8:21 am

Angry Critter wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 6:58 am
Yeah, I totally follow 600 different accounts just for Twitter's fucking algorithm to only give me content of the same 10-20 people on that list while neglecting the rest, while half the shit ending up on my feed is from accounts I don't even follow.

I really hate this "We know better what's good for you than you do" attitude most sites seem to have nowadays. :ohrarity:
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 8:24 am

evergreen
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Angry Critter (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 8:41 am

Fizzbuzz wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:21 am
yes >:c

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Skipper (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 9:37 am


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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 9:41 am

yeah
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Fizzbuzz (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 9:50 am

Skipper wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 9:37 am
Relevant.
Things like this make me wonder if we all never actually learned to recognize and reject evil, and instead we'd just been getting by with the moral decisions made for us by the big companies that control the mainstream.
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 10:07 am

i think with this it's a case of drawing people in, you start with the small lies and then introduce to them the big ones. If you've prepared them properly, they won't even question what you're telling them.

Not to mention that there's a whole lot of manipulation at play. It can be as simple as "if you don't watch/reblog/retweet this you're a terrible person" to "everything bad you feel is the result of X and their conspiracy, WAKE UP!"
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Angry Critter (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 10:53 am

I have a bit of an alternate perspective on some generalizations early on in the article, which I'd like to elaborate on.

I think the existence of these individuals who speak their minds on YouTube is by a long stretch not as threatening as the cable networks spreading bullshit financed by corporate and political lobbies, that are now also even favored by the algorithm of said video platform as being 'authoritative sources'. It is effectively a form of censorship and it's extremely concerning.

Some of these individuals that are rudely being boxed in the same category as radical holocaust deniers and out-there conspiracy theorists, actually have good things to say, and the algorithm is effectively limiting their audience to people who already watch them anyway, or sit in that particular corner of the platform to begin with.

Also, if you think a lot of the more out-there opinion-havers are actively trying to manipulate their audience as some form of scheme, I would actually turn that around to call you the conspiracy theorist. A lot of these people are very seriously and radically convinced of what they're saying, as opposed to knowingly spreading lies and misinformation. Just calling for them to be shut up and deplatformed will not actually change their minds.

Instead, people using their platform to engage in lengthy in-depth conversations and are willing to talk to and debate everyone regardless of their ideology, that's actually where positive change happens. It's less easy than just banning people, but more effective in possibly changing their mind, and might actually offer insight into why they feel and think the way they do and might even humanize them more to you.

The whole anti-attitude a lot of people have on just about every side of every current online discussion, is an extremely ineffective means to their supposed cause at the very least. The bashing and shaming only serves to feed people's egos, in my honest opinion.
Last edited by Angry Critter on Tue May 26, 2020 11:03 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Angry Critter (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 10:59 am

I think I'm on the same page as the author of that article in terms of their view on the algorithm. More particularly, it seems to favor things that invite engagement, and people by-and-large seem to engage more with things that trigger them or one-ups things they're already watching. It's concerning.

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 11:03 am

Angry Critter wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 10:53 am
Also, if you think a lot of the more out-there opinion-havers are actively trying to manipulate their audience as some form of scheme, I would actually turn that around to call you the conspiracy theorist.
It's because they are.

i've met fascists irl who've tried to recruit me when i was a teen, i've seen the same arguments and the same language and manipulation used online as used on me. Including trying to stroke my ego for being a "aryan" (i'm very white and used to have bright blond hair), which you can see heavily in far right tactics on twitter, youtube and reddit, where they try getting sad men to believe they are the master race and to join them so they can use them for their goals. While they might believe in their idelogies, they are hardly above using special phrases and manipulative tactics to get things done and the end goal is getting enough cannon fodder to die for their cause.
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 11:11 am

I'm not talking out of my ass. I've seen stuff like this up close and personal. I've met people, some even family relations who's brains are poisoned by conspiracy nonsense they found on youtube. I've had someone try repeteadly to convince me a known con man was the real deal because he said so on youtube and sounded convincing.

I've seen people fall behind one women who kept harping how vaccines are a western conspiracy to exterminate people from this country and populate it with arabs. That same woman then posts on her social media, playing the victim and claiming how the government is hounding her and attacking her for her claims and convinces her followers to storm a court session and interrupt it where she was going to lose her doctor's liscence.

Don't ever tell me these people with "out there beliefes" aren't manipulating their followers.

They are and they know what they're doing.
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Angry Critter (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 11:14 am

DaikatunaRevengeance wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:03 am
It's because they are.

i've met fascists irl who've tried to recruit me when i was a teen, i've seen the same arguments and the same language and manipulation used online as used on me. Including trying to stroke my ego for being a "aryan" (i'm very white and used to have bright blond hair), which you can see heavily in far right tactics on twitter, youtube and reddit, where they try getting sad men to believe they are the master race and to join them so they can use them for their goals. While they might believe in their idelogies, they are hardly above using special phrases and manipulative tactics to get things done and the end goal is getting enough cannon fodder to die for their cause.
I think it's a very gross generalization to label everyone the algorithm low-key censors right now as fascists who purposefully manipulate their audience. Some sure do, I'm very aware. But I'm talking about 'a lot of the more out-there opinion-havers' who are currently having their videos demonetized and royally screwed over by the algorithm for not being an 'authoritative source' (such as bullshit networks like FOX News, and the WHO which clearly refuses to say anything bad about China and doesn't even acknowledge the existence of Taiwan), and you just call them all manipulative fascists, citing personal bias. We're not talking about the same group of people here. Overlap exists, but they're definitely not one and the same.

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 11:20 am

right wing youtubers have videos that are 4, 5 or more hours long because longer videos make more money and they already have a conditioned crowd that will eat it all up even if 99% of that video is poorly edited, full of dead air and just two guys talking utter nonsense.

one extremist youtuber is by all accounts running a cult and asking of his followers to abadnon their friends, families. Hell, i wouldn't be surprised if he's asked his followers to give him all their material possesions.
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Angry Critter (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 11:20 am

I think freedom of speech means people get to speak their mind, no matter how ridiculous their opinion is. I'd rather not establish an aristocracy to decide who doesn't get to spread their opinion because it might be deemed toxic or bad. I'd much rather acknowledge the fact that some people are going to spout a bunch of bullshit, as well as acknowledging everyone's freedom to call them out rather than having the bullshit silenced altogether.

That's an extremely slippery slope, which often only serves to feed the bullshit-speader's perceived conspiracies, because they are being censored. Which in that case, would actually be true...

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Skipper (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 11:23 am

.
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Skipper (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 11:25 am

.
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Angry Critter (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 11:31 am

DaikatunaRevengeance wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:20 am
right wing youtubers have videos that are 4, 5 or more hours long because longer videos make more money and they already have a conditioned crowd that will eat it all up even if 99% of that video is poorly edited, full of dead air and just two guys talking utter nonsense.
First off, left wing does this just as much, as can everyone. And I don't really watch online conversations for production quality. I watch it for substance, and the opinions and perspectives.

Actually, the most popular one is mostly left-wing, even if they don't always have left-wing guests, which I think is a good thing. Joe Rogan (who says he's been progressive left all his life, was for Bernie, is constantly arguing for UBI, is 100% for personal freedom and gay marriage and was the first big media source to actually have a medical expert warn everyone about the dangers of COVID-19 in a properly informative manner) might be a guy with out-there opinions, conspiracy theories, and weird stances, absolutely. You can call him and his opinions shitty all you like. But the platform is good, and I think that's what a lot of ~authoritative sources~ are missing. People speak their minds, no matter if the interviewer agrees with them or not, and they have their views respected and often even change their mind on air. Mutual respect and open dialogue go a very long way.

I wouldn't dare to get angry at people speaking their minds and call for them to be deplatformed if they don't share my ideology 100% of the time...
Skipper wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:25 am
Freedom of speech means the government can't punish you for what you're saying. It doesn't mean that you just get to say whatever you want and anybody must give you a platform to do so, unopposed. It is well within the rights of corporations to deny you your platform, doesn't mean that your freedom of speech is limited, you still got it, just express it elsewhere.
This idea of what censorship is stems from a very very very different time. YouTube as a corporation has an extremely unfair monopoly, and as a business operates in a very hostile and toxic manner. You can't just make a new YouTube, nor can you just make a new Twitter and expect everyone to just hop over. I think we need to recognize that in 2020, these platforms have more power to censor and steer public opinion than most governments do.

If we were talking about decentralized platforms, I'd say you're right and every instance can decide wtf and if you don't agree just start your own instance. But that's not the world we live in.
Skipper wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:23 am
Neither will you change their minds by engaging in discussion with them, unfortunately; at least not the hardcore, multiple-conspiracy-believing kind.

Any disagreement tends to immediately be taken as "being part of the conspiracy". Many of them are incredibly distrustful if science as a whole, so any argument you may have is automatically preemptively disqualified.
Again personal bias. I've even seen it happen, including in myself in numerous cases, so you can't tell me it cannot be done. I think this is a very pessimistic negative stance that ultimately leads to a 'basket of deplorables' type view on very large groups of people.

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Mechanical Ape (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 11:43 am

The thing about that is, a truly free marketplace of ideas, where all opinions no matter how vile are given equal opportunity to flower, doesn’t exist outside of theory. In practice hate speech tends to drown out the speech of the underprivileged — not necessarily through real-world intimidation such as doxxing (though sometimes that) but through hate speakers, by their very presence, creating an environment where marginalized people don’t feel safe or comfortable speaking up.

Communities welcoming to *everyone* end up colonized by nazis (iirc that was a problem in the furry community), who in turn do their best to ruin the welcoming spirit for everyone else, because nazis don’t care about freedom of speech and would take everyone else’s away given the chance.

If the goal is to maximize diversity of opinion, there are some people whom you do have to keep out.
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 11:44 am

This.
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 11:45 am

it's a still ongoing problem in the furry fandom
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by DaikatunaRevengeance (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 11:46 am

though improvements have happened, so maybe one day they'll be out
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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by Angry Critter (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 11:48 am

Mechanical Ape wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:43 am
The thing about that is, a truly free marketplace of ideas, where all opinions no matter how vile are given equal opportunity to flower, doesn’t exist outside of theory. In practice hate speech tends to drown out the speech of the underprivileged — not necessarily through real-world intimidation such as doxxing (though sometimes that) but through hate speakers, by their very presence, creating an environment where marginalized people don’t feel safe or comfortable speaking up.

Communities welcoming to *everyone* end up colonized by nazis (iirc that was a problem in the furry community), who in turn do their best to ruin the welcoming spirit for everyone else, because nazis don’t care about freedom of speech and would take everyone else’s away given the chance.

If the goal is to maximize diversity of opinion, there are some people whom you do have to keep out.
I agree with you, actually. I just think you have to be very careful about where you draw the line.

Alex Jones, for instance, was actively spouting hate and generalizations, and one of many toxic ways his viewers responded to his content was by seeking out families of Sandy Hook victims and accusing them of terrible things and threatening them with terrible things. And that's just one of very many line-crossing things he's done.

If you spread hate, don't welcome open dialogue, call upon people to do harmful things, etc, yes, I absolutely do believe you can and should be deplatformed.

But if all you're doing is speaking your mind and elaborating on your views, I don't think you should be silenced.

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Re: ITT Post Your Random Thoughts

Post by !saak (?) » Tue May 26, 2020 11:48 am

Skipper wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:23 am
Neither will you change their minds by engaging in discussion with them, unfortunately; at least not the hardcore, multiple-conspiracy-believing kind.

Any disagreement tends to immediately be taken as "being part of the conspiracy". Many of them are incredibly distrustful if science as a whole, so any argument you may have is automatically preemptively disqualified.


this is a good series talking about this phenomenon

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